Helena Doyle father John who was her mother

[daljul]

Helena Doyle married Patrick Gregan 27th Feb 1876 St. Andrew's, Westland Row Dublin irishgenealogy.ie have them both shown as full age and living at 153 Townsend Street. Father John but no mother's details. Witnesses Edward Doyle and Alice Lynch.
Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915 for the marriage shows mothers' name as Bridget.
1901 census living at 51 Tyrone Street, Court Ward, Antrim, Ireland. Patrick age 40 Sailor & Helena age 39 (Estimated Birth Year abt 1862)  both born Dublin & 6 children. With them is father inlaw John Doyle Widower age 60 Dispach Clark in Evg Telegraph Office. All are Roman Catholic.

1911 census 36 Preston St Fleetwood Lancashire Patrick age 45 Seaman, Helena age 45 (Estimated Birth Year abt 1866) & 4 children. Her father John is not with them and I can't confirm where or when he dies.
Also, because of the uncertainty of Helena's ages on the census records I cannot establish when she was born If 1862 is correct she would only be 14 on her marriage.

The closest match I could find for a birth was Helen Mary Doyle 1858 Dublin to John & Bridget Sponsor 1 John Curran Sponsor 2 Catherine Doyle. There as a marriage of John Doyle and Bridget Cavenagh at St. Andrew's, Dublin City on 22 February 1852 Witness 1 Patrick Geraghty Witness 2 Bridget Geraghty but I don't know if they are Helen's parents.

All the children born to Patrick & Helen Gregan just show    
Hellena with no middle name on Roman Catholic baptism records.

I would appreciate any tips trying to establish who was Helena Doyle's mother
Thanks dinkey

[QueenoftheWest]

Witnesses Edward Doyle and Alice Lynch.

I feel this is an important clue. You haven't mentioned this here, but on the Catholic parish record for Helena's marriage, it gives Edward's address as 153 Townsend Street, which is the same address given for Patrick, Helena and Helena's parents, John and Bridget. This is a strong indication that Edward was a sibling of Helena.

If you look at the children of John Doyle and Bridget Kavanagh, there are at least the following:

- Elizabeth Jane Doyle, baptised 1853, St Michan's, Dublin City
- Edward Doyle, baptised 1860, Westland Row, Dublin. Address: 3 Hamilton Row.
- Louisa Jane Doyle, baptised 1865, Westland Row, Dublin. Address: 147 Townsend Street.
- Louisa Mary Doyle, baptised 1866, Westland Row, Dublin. Address: 147 Townsend Street.
- John Joseph Doyle, baptised baptised 1869, Westland Row, Dublin. Address: 161 Townsend Street.

There are also several other possible children, whose baptism records do not contain the mother's maiden name. 

The fact that the family resided on Townsend Street at least until the late 1860s is also a piece of supporting evidence (granted, they did not live at 153 exactly). I also see that Patrick and Helena had a daughter called Louisa, which is not a very common Roman Catholic name.

It all looks very plausible to me. A DNA match between you and another descendant of John and Bridget would probably be required to be 100% certain. You could also do a 'deep-dive' into the lives of John and Bridget's other children to see if that throws up any leads.

Queenie 

[daljul]

Thank you Queenie for all your helpful information which is much appeciated.

I don't know why I never spotted that on Helen and Patrick's marriage her parents John & Bridget were also at 153 Townsend St as well as Edward who looks to be her brother as shown as a witness.

I will follow through with the other children born at Townsend St to John & Bridget as suggested.

kind regards
dinkey

[myluck!]

There is a death for a Bridget DOYLE at 18 Shaw Street Dublin on Oct 14 1884; She was aged 50 and the informant was her daughter, Maria.
John Christopher GREGAN who born on Nov 28 and baptised on Dec 08 1884 and the address given is also 18 Shaw Street.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1884/06308/4808696.pdf

If Patrick and Helena were under 21 (not Full age) when they married they would most likely have been recorded as minors. As many people had no need to know their specific age until well into the 20th century I would err that the earlier records relating to ages are more accurate. That implies that if married in 1876 they were born in 1855 or before.

There is a baptism for a Maria DOYLE DoB Jul 12 DoBap Jul 16 1856 in St Andrew's Church; her parents were John DOYLE and Bridget CASSIDY

This would tie in but not proven; I suggest you keep a note of this as you search - unfortunately DOYLE is a very common name and making a verified connection could be difficult.

I also note that the 1911 census states that there were 16 children in the GREGAN family of which 8 were still alive. I can only locate records for nine children. Five were born at Shaw Street. Several had sponsors at their baptisms named DOYLE including the names, Edward, John and Charles.

hope this helps a little

[daljul]

Thank you for your response and further helpful pieces of information. I will keep them for reference regarding the family