Sullivan Blu(e)man of Kilgarvan

[chrisos]

Hi there
I have come across several references to the surname Sullivan/Blu(e)man in my Kilgarvan research and am wondering why one particular Sullivan branch would use this double surname.  It has been suggested by AI chat bots that Blu(e)man is an occupational surname derived from the Old German word "blei" meaning lead and that some Sullivans may have worked in lead works or were in charge of them.  From what I have established the Sullivan/Blu(e)man line was at Cregeen and later Rosseighteragh. 

Can anyone shed some light on whether there were lead mines nearby?   I have also discovered that there was a large copper mine at Ardtully between 1812 and 1830 when it closed down.  My earliest confirmed (by DNA) ancestor was at Ardtully between 1830-1836 at least and was working on the John Bresnahan lot at Ummirengerane (subtownland of Ardtully), so I am assuming that this was a farming property.

The only other thing I can think of in relation to the double name is that in order to inherit a property an early Sullivan (1830s-1850s) had to adopt the name.  Similar to what occurred with the Orpen-Townsend line.

Can anybody shed some further light on this?
Many thanks
Chris

[heywood]

It sounds like a nickname to distinguish one family from another but hopefully someone may be able to help further.

An example of your quest
From a transcript
Baptism (Latin) Kilgarvan
Joannis Bludman 11th February 1865
Parents Dionysu Bludman and Joanna Donohue
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000634322#page/8/mode/1up

The birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03578/2319008.pdf
John Sullivan -parents  Dennis and Johannah

[Kiltaglassan]

The birth
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03578/2319008.pdf
John Sullivan -parents  Dennis and Johannah

...and following heywood's find, John born in the townland of Roseightra [sic].

https://www.townlands.ie/kerry/glanarought/kilgarvan/glanlee/rosseightragh/

Approx 5 km east of the village of Kilgarvan.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6341360#map=13/51.9112/-9.4005

[heywood]

My earliest confirmed (by DNA) ancestor was at Ardtully between 1830-1836 at least and was working on the John Bresnahan lot at Ummirengerane (subtownland of Ardtully), so I am assuming that this was a farming property.

Just one point. Here is the Tithe Applotments record, which I think you refer to re John Bresnahan. I am not sure it reads, ‘lot’. I wonder if it says ‘Cott’ which might be cottage?
Pat and Thady Sullivan are also listed.

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01saw/

Thady may be the Timothy Sullivan listed in Griffiths with John Sullivan and also a Mining Company.

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sax/

[heywood]

Looking at some Bluman baptisms and comparing with civil records c1866, the baptisms use Bluman and civil records Sullivan.
I am sure you have found all this in your research.

[ChrisO]

Hi there
My apologies for the delay replying.  I live in southern NSW, Oz so there is a bit of a time delay involved I’m afraid.

To be honest I hadn’t compared the baptism records to the civil records, so thank you for this information.  I was more focussed on the why.  If they used Blueman in the baptismal records only, does that support the nickname theory? Therefore, would that also support the AI suggestion that Blueman was an occupational name for someone in charge of or who worked at the lead mine?   I did notice a Blueman Hegarty as one of the baptism sponsors though. 

Then again does Blueman link back to one of the very early Irish families lost in time?  I receive weekly emails from Mike Collins who hosts A Letter from Ireland.  It might be worth an email to him enquiring about the origins of the name, as he appears very knowledgeable with regards to the surnames of Ireland.

I intend to post a separate enquiry re the mines at Kilgarvan.  I was surprised when I read about these as I thought Kilgarvan was a purely a farming community.
Regards
Chris

[heywood]

It’s good to know that we have helped a bit. I looked for baptisms on Ancestry Catholic baptisms ‘Blu*  in Kilgarvan.
There are only a few later ones which fall into civil record years so I didn’t look at the older ones.
I had seen this on the ‘Letter from Ireland’ and will post it for others to see who might be interested in trying to help.
https://www.aletterfromireland.com/3-things-to-know-about-your-irish-ancestor-surnames/