Michael & Philip Brady / Terenure

[shanreagh]

I notice that on the complete record there is a dispensation which may give some further clues as to family. 

I cannot quite read it.....it ends ......a pmo (perhaps primo or first)

[shanreagh]

1903 his war documents don't give an age, but reconfirm father is Philip who is at this point in St Patricks house, South Circular Road - an elderly persons home.

There is a death registration for a Philip Brady living at St. Patrick's House who died on 15th November 1903:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1903/05647/4589479.pdf

He is listed as married, so the census entry may have an error.

Queenie 

Looking at the register for the other entries they seem to be divided into married, bachelor, spinster and not going any deeper into if the person has been widowed.  Many people will say they are married even if their partner has died......my family certainly does. 

[shanreagh]

I forgot to say welcome earlier.....so welcome Irish researching is a real buzz I find. 

It is usefuil to look for siblings of Michael Brady, the younger as these may contain family names...and these often followed the Irish naming pattern. You can often find possibles going back by seeing if yout ancestors followed the naming patterns.  Though as my mother would say, being irish meant they did not always do things according to tradition.  In my family we have a family name from a close neighbour and another from a highly regarded local Minister. 

The Irish naming pattern is as follows:

1st son is named after the father’s father.
2nd son is named after the mother’s father.
3rd son is named after the father.
4th son is named after the father’s eldest brother.
 

1st daughter is named after the mother’s mother.
2nd daughter is named after the father’s mother.
3rd daughter is named after the mother.
4th daughter is named after the mother’s eldest sister.
https://youririshheritage.com/lessons/irish-naming-patterns/

On Family Search I have found these as possibles for the siblings of Michael ie children of Philip and Mary Anne Lynam.

John Brady Roundtown born 23/11/1864 baptised 27/11/64

Thomas Joseph Brady is born 1866 to the same parents in Boston Mass?
a john Bradey dies in boston Mass aged 2 in 1877. Same parents

A Mary A brady is born in Suffolk, Boston , Mass. 7/3/1868

Rosanna Brady  born 28/10/1877 registered Dublin South and mother is Mary Anne Lynam Brady
 
Daniel Brady  birth 13/4/1861 Bapt21/1/1867.  may have missed being baptised earlier or be very ill. Sometimes you will find the parents baptise several children on the same day...

Philip E Brady is born 1861/62 to the same parents and dies in Chicago in 1937

Philip Brady the father was said to be 80 when he died in 1903. There is a Dublin baptism of a Philip Brady in 1823 to Pat & Margaret Brady on 26/12/1823 at Rathfarnham (just out of Dublin)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6NZJ-2V3Y

May not be him.
The births above may not be his children unless it is confirmed that his wife was Mary Anne Lynam Brady.

The births in Mass (US) are a bit of a puzzle and need to be looked at, the family may have emigrated and then returned, this was not unknown. 

[heywood]

That looks very interesting shanreagh.

[heywood]

I just want to say:
Looking at https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/ - both church and civil records there are many Bradys in the Quarry, Roundtown with repeating names as shanreagh refers to so it is difficult.

[redbullmarky]

If I take a while to reply then my apologies - they’re there, but in red “Awaiting approval” some of which from before the latest posts here.

But thank you all for your help so far! I’ll have a poke around and see what May tally.

Based on knowns, and replies too, there are a few things:

- The birth entry for Michael, from December 1871 is something I’ve come across but perhaps dismissed because the age doesn’t tally. I thought that maybe mistakes could have been made when giving ages, but several items years apart somewhat lend support to late 1872

- There are records for Philip Brady (of the same address - Quarries) with a Catherine Reilly, and plenty of births here.

- there’s even an 1862 birth detail for Philip and Mary and child Michael. Also quarries. I considered an error might have meant this could be possible, but I guess when they’re sandwiched between other items on a list, it somewhat gives certainty to the date, assuming the list is original.

And shanreagh you’re not wrong, it is a buzz - but frustrating sometimes in equal measures   

Anyway, thanks again so far everyone!

[redbullmarky]

So, I'm still on the hunt for ANY firm details of Michael's birth/baptism.

This is a possible birth record for Michael - December 1871, father Philip Brady & mother Marianne (who appears to be referred to as Mary Ann on some other documents that may be hers) Lynam. It somewhat matches what's on his marriage registration (posted already in first post):

http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sb7/

On his attestation papers (dated ~13th July 1891), he suggests he is 18 years and 8 months old, which would seemingly put his birth date around November 1872:

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sc7/

On the 1911 census (~April), he says he's 39. Which, if his birthday WAS around November-ish time, he'd be 40 then which backtracks nicely to the birth record. Other documents do indeed suggest wife Mary is 10 years younger (nothing exact):

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000111247/

And finally, 24th September 1914, again via war documents, he gives his age as 41 years and 300 days, which also suggests November 1872:

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sc8/

I have managed to comfortably find supporting details to link the three documents detailing his approximate age together, so I'm 100% sure they're the same person. The birth record however, I'm not fully tied in to yet.

So the question really, what could explain the age discrepancy? They'd be nearly a year out in the case of the army records, but if anything, I'd have expected some degree of accuracy on those rather than the census (there's even working out scribbled on the attestation one!)

There IS another record that might suggest Michael had issues with the law (assault of a police constable, August 1890):

https://www.rootschat.com/links/01sc9/

This made me think that maybe the fudging of the age might have been to prevent it being found out (given he answered 'No' to being imprisoned).

It's all speculation of course, but otherwise I cannot pin down any birth record comfortably. There is obviously the possibility he wasn't even born in Ireland, but I've not found any evidence for that and he does also suggest his place of birth as Terenure.

So yeah, my brick wall is still standing firmly! I did look into some of the links kindly posted by shanreagh but again, nothing I can tie in (yet) with any degree of certainty.

Am I just trying to hard to make things fit here?
Any pointers would be massively appreciated.

EDIT: I also cannot find any detail of a marriage between Philip & Mary. If a marriage had NOT happened, would it still be likely that Mary could have still used 'Brady' as the name when it came to registering any children, or for a baptism, etc?

[Kiltaglassan]

Just for your information, three of your ShrinkLinks to Ancestry only open at a subscription page (for Ancestry non-users).

It would be much better to post a snip of the text from the Ancestry page, and adding it as an attachment.

When you click on “reply”, under the white text box where you type, is “Attachments and other options”.
Select that and then click “Choose File” to add your attachments.

[redbullmarky]

Just for your information, three of your ShrinkLinks to Ancestry only open at a subscription page (for Ancestry non-users).

You’re right, my apologies: I have edited the links. They still go to ancestry but to the publicly viewable page that has all the info I’m referring to.