Author Topic: Location of military Barracks  (Read 634 times)

Offline Andsm

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Location of military Barracks
« on: Sunday 21 May 23 19:38 BST (UK) »
One of my ancestors William Smith lived in West Derby, Liverpool. I've found him in the 1841-1861 censuses with his family living in West Derby.

1841: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQL3-26H
1851: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGYL-PWX
1861: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7YV-BQL

Even though his occupation is 'labourer' could he have been a retired soldier as he's living in the 'village Barracks'? I've looked at his sons' occupations and none of them are soldiers. The reason I'm asking is that I have a cluster of strong DNA matches on his ancestral line with ancestors in and around Holdenhurst/Bournemouth. I was wondering whether there may have been a Barracks or Depot there? Is there anywhere online I can look for locations of military Barracks? I've looked for a military record for him but cannot locate one.

Northamptonshire: Dixon, Sturgess, Toseland, Pooles, Austin, Holding, Tomkins, Partridge, Bailey, Freestone, Harris, Shelton, Bass, Manning, Rowe, Claridge
Staffordshire: Haycock, Ward, Broadhurst, Vodrey, Stevenson, Mellor, Cope, Plant, Withington, Swinson, Yendley, Richards, Smallwood, Lockett, Hollins, Whalley, Beech, Bateman, Rowley, Nash, Barker
Warwickshire: Mander, Joyner, Commander, Carter, Turner
Shropshire: Heath, Ward, Smith, Barlow

Online Jebber

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Re: Location of military Barracks
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 21 May 23 20:54 BST (UK) »
There was a Barracks in Christchurch.

The Drill Hall in Holdenhurst Road, Bournemouth was the headquarters of the 4th Volunteer Bn of the Hampshire Regt.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Location of military Barracks
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 21 May 23 21:07 BST (UK) »
There's another thread on RootsChat about the Barracks on Deysbrook Lane, West Derby here: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=491404.0
There's also a photograph on Pinterest of what looks like a terrace of houses entitled the Barracks, West Derby: https://www.pinterest.com.au/pin/426997608418178844/
None of the individuals named in the 1861 census who are living in the place known as the barracks are in the military, which makes me think it was either just a local name or it was area where there was once a military barracks which had been abandoned by the mid nineteenth century. The OS map from 1888 shows no barracks on Deysbrook Lane.

Offline hanes teulu

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Re: Location of military Barracks
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 21 May 23 21:57 BST (UK) »
West Derby in 1845 (eastern edge of map)
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102344096

No sign of a "Barracks". The 1841 addresses open up with "Lodge, Haymans Green" and the addresses are a real mix, switching from "Barracks" to "Village " and back again.


Offline Rena

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Re: Location of military Barracks
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 21 May 23 23:51 BST (UK) »
Britain was always  updating its defences, especially after fighting Napoleon.

There's a bit of information on this website:-

https://castellogy.com/device-forts-victorian-and-modern-period
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online ShaunJ

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Re: Location of military Barracks
« Reply #5 on: Monday 22 May 23 09:45 BST (UK) »
Various newspaper mentions of the "Barracks" in West Derby Village:

"VALUABLE Freehold PROPERTY, close to Cheshire Lines Station, consisting of 3O cottages, known as The Barracks, West Derby Village" (1892)

"30 COTTAGES, known as "The Barracks,” in West Derby Village, for Sale, rents varying from 2s 6d to 3s 6d per week. " (1901)
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Location of military Barracks
« Reply #6 on: Monday 22 May 23 12:13 BST (UK) »
Britain was always  updating its defences, especially after fighting Napoleon.

There's a bit of information on this website:-

https://castellogy.com/device-forts-victorian-and-modern-period
Rena, while it's always useful have links to sites like the one you provided, I can't see it having any relevance to the query posed by the OP. West Derby once had a motte and bailey castle although this is reported to be a ruin by as early as the fourteenth century. West Derby was possibly the site of a Roman camp in even earlier times, but otherwise, as a piece of real estate, the village had no strategic value by the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Any Army barracks in the area, had they existed, would almost certainly have been a tented encampment, not a brick building of the type we usually associate with the word barracks today.  I can find no record of a militia or rifle volunteer force based in or around West Derby which would have required permanent accommodation.

I also think it is incorrect to imply (as the linked article does) that Britain was more active in its programme of fortifications after Napoleon was defeated (1815) than it was before. While it is true that Britain continued to update the fortifications, mainly around the South coast, in reaction to technological changes in weaponry, this was due to a general unease in Europe including the rise of a unified German state, and very little to do with any specific threat from France. France and Britain were allies during the Crimean War (1854 -56) and generally had friendly relations for the remainder of the century, although they remained rivals elsewhere in the World, especially in Africa and Indo-China.

Offline IMBER

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Re: Location of military Barracks
« Reply #7 on: Monday 22 May 23 12:45 BST (UK) »
At that time barracks was not necessarily a military term. Housing for the less prosperous sector of society was often poor and high density and was often referred to as barracks all over England. My own family lived in "The Barracks" in Maidenhead, Berkshire and that market town has never had a military presence. When I mentioned this to the older members of my family they were quite keen to change the subject. Many of these sorts of buildings were cleared away for public health reasons and as part of slum clearance projects in the late 19th century and early twentieth after which the term started to become more associated with military accommodation.
Skewis (Wales and Scotland), Ayers (Maidenhead, Berkshire), Hildreth (Berkshire)

Offline Rena

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Re: Location of military Barracks
« Reply #8 on: Monday 22 May 23 13:03 BST (UK) »
Britain was always  updating its defences, especially after fighting Napoleon.

There's a bit of information on this website:-

https://castellogy.com/device-forts-victorian-and-modern-period
Rena, while it's always useful have links to sites like the one you provided, I can't see it having any relevance to the query posed by the OP. West Derby once had a motte and bailey castle although this is reported to be a ruin by as early as the fourteenth century. West Derby was possibly the site of a Roman camp in even earlier times, but otherwise, as a piece of real estate, the village had no strategic value by the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Any Army barracks in the area, had they existed, would almost certainly have been a tented encampment, not a brick building of the type we usually associate with the word barracks today.  I can find no record of a militia or rifle volunteer force based in or around West Derby which would have required permanent accommodation.

I also think it is incorrect to imply (as the linked article does) that Britain was more active in its programme of fortifications after Napoleon was defeated (1815) than it was before. While it is true that Britain continued to update the fortifications, mainly around the South coast, in reaction to technological changes in weaponry, this was due to a general unease in Europe including the rise of a unified German state, and very little to do with any specific threat from France. France and Britain were allies during the Crimean War (1854 -56) and generally had friendly relations for the remainder of the century, although they remained rivals elsewhere in the World, especially in Africa and Indo-China.

Hard luck that you didn't find anything to lead you to the information you asked for.

I was born and bred in the port of Kingston Upon Hull and halfway between Hull and the town of Beverley there was a massive red brick structure, with heavy wooden solid wooden gates, which were known as the "Beverley Barracks". 
I thought you might find something like that.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke