Mystery Church

[rocala]

 In the Settlement Examination books of St Martin-in-the-Fields, it is stated that Thomas Pemberton married Lydia about 1717. This marriage was said to be at "Loaden Steeple, Ilston, Derbyshire.
I presume that this is Ilkeston. Wikipedia states that the local dialect pronounced it as 'Ilson', which may explain the confusion.

The problem is I cannot find any church with a name remotely like "Loaden Steeple". Neither can I find such a marriage. The only thing that I can think of is that it was a local nickname, perhaps referring to Leaden?

 

[arthurk]

Ilkeston does seem possible, but not finding a marriage there is a bit unfortunate.

The church there has a tower, but there was a small steeple/spire on it until it blew down in a hurricane in 1714. According to a 19th century history of the town, this steeple was covered with lead:

https://archive.org/details/historyilkeston00unkngoog/page/n26/mode/2up?view=theater

So with that still fresh in the memory in 1717, there might have been some local nickname referring to its demise. Finding firm evidence of this may be another matter.

I haven't seen the original document, but there's a transcription on the Society of Genealogists website which has Leaden Steeple, rather than Loaden - quite possibly an 'e' was mistranscribed, as at some periods they were very similar to 'o'. This slightly corroborates the Ilkeston theory, I think.

The transcript also lists 3 children - Hannah (18), William (14) and Sarah (7). The examination was in 1736/37 when Thomas was 40: do the locations of the children's baptisms help at all? It also says that Lydia died in 1733 - again, does her burial (or memorial?) help? And can Thomas's own baptism be found?

[rocala]

That is really encouraging info about the church, many thanks to you.

Lydia is a complete mystery beyond some baptisms and the mention of her death. Thomas is difficult too. There is a possible baptism at Newton Solney, 1686. Some online trees favour a Leicestershire birth. Certainly there was a connection, Hannah was living in Coleorton and there were other Pembertons there too.

Thomas and Lydia also had a son named Thomas, baptised at St Martin. No record of his death. Some years later, a Thomas Pemberton turned up from Farringdon, Berks and married a local girl. He was the right age. I wonder if when times were tough his parents got him adopted or taken in. Certainly no sign of him being born in Farringdon.

[arthurk]

I've just had a look at the baptisms, though I suspect you already have these:
Hannah - 1721 in Whitwick, Leics
William - not found
Sarah - 1728 at St Martin in the Fields
Thomas - 1725 at St Martin in the Fields

However, just to throw a spanner in the works, in Coleorton in 1733 there's a Thomas son of Thomas and Ann(e) of Whitwick. So there may well be some kind of connection there.

For Thomas the father, is 1686 a bit too early? I found another possible in 1695 in Scalford - also Leics, but a bit further away. But his marriage to Lydia still eludes me.

Added:
for the son Thomas, there's a possible burial at St Martin in the Fields on 10 Feb 1728/29 - just a name with 'C' next to it, which I think means Child. This would explain why he's not named in the settlement examination.

[rocala]

Hello again. Well spotted with the child death. Trouble is there were two Thomas Pemberton baptisms in St Martin, a year apart. Plus a few others baptised at nearby churches. Absence from the settlement is compelling though. There seemed to be quite a large number of Pembertons in Westminster.

I wondered if 1686 was too high. The settlement said "upwards of forty", 1686 would have made him fifty. Given that all other figures are quite precise, I thought it an odd remark. Perhaps they doubted the accuracy of his answer?

[arthurk]

I wondered if 1686 was too high. The settlement said "upwards of forty", 1686 would have made him fifty. Given that all other figures are quite precise, I thought it an odd remark. Perhaps they doubted the accuracy of his answer?

It's usually a lot easier to be sure of a child's age, as you may be able to remember other events that happened around the time they were born. You can't do that with your own birth, of course. It also seems to me that some of the estimates might depend on others - any or all of these questions might have been asked (in any order), and any could have been answered with Don't Know or something vague: When were you born? When did you marry? How old were you when you married? With some people, the big surprise would be if they did manage to get a precise answer.