helen Horn 1802

[agray1949]

I wonder if anyone can give me some information about Helen Horn who was born in Drumblade in 1802 to James Horn (1748 - 1805) & Elizabeth Barron (1760 - 1814). Helen was my 3 x Great Grandmother.
There is a bit of confusion regarding her birth & parents.
I have information about her from 1827 - 1892 when she died in the form of Census records, Marriage record & Death certificate.
She had an illegitimate son Alexander (2 x Great Grandfather)(1827 - 1898) by James Gray (1798 - 1874) in Forgue.
She married George Nicol in Forgue in 1833 & appears in an 1836 Church Census with George & Alexander in Forgue.
All other records show her as having been born in Forgue in 1805 & her death certificate shows her parents as Peter Horn & Isobel Duncan.

My query is that there was no baptism record for Helen in 1805 to Peter & Isobel but there were 3  children baptised in Forgue. John 1802, Christian 1806 & Alexander 1809.
There was however a Helen born in 1802 in Drumblade to James Horn & Elizabeth Barron who also had 4 other children James 1796, Alexander 1798, Jean 1800 & William 1805.
James (snr) died Jan 1805 & Elizabeth died March 1814.
Could it be that when James died Elizabeth would have been left on her own to bring up 5 children & so Helen & possibly the others were adopted by other families.
If so then Helen would have been about 2 1/2 years old & may have been ignorant of who her real parents were & always thought of Peter & Isobel as her parents & the date of adoption (1805) as her birth year.
In other words is Helen 1802 & Helen 1805 the same person If I can find any information about Helen 1802 then that will reject my theory.

[ColC]

At the time of marriage James was 47 and Elizabeth was 35, were either married before?

I do not see a marriage in Scotland for Peter Horn & Isobel Duncan but I do see the births you mention, looking at the records on SP it does look very likely that James & Peter were related.
However that would not account for the difference in Helens YOB?

Colin

[Forfarian]

Who registered the death of Helen Horn or Nicol in 1892?

In every census from 1851 to 1891 she says that she was born in Forgue, and her age is 46, 55, 66, 77 and 86 respectively, which suggests that she was born in 1803/1806. All of the recorded children of Peter Horn and Isobel Duncan were born in Forgue, including John in 1802 and Christian in 1806. Helen would fit perfectly into the gap between John and Christian.

In my opinion it is more likely that she was a child of PH and ID whose baptism record has not survived, than that she was a child born in an earlier year to different parents in a different parish.

What evidence (other than the absence of a record of the baptism of Helen to Peter H and Isobel Duncan) do you have to suggest that it was Helen H, daughter of James H and Elizabeth Barron, who married George Nicol?

[agray1949]

It was her son who registered her death but as I said, if she had been adopted at age 2 1/2 then she may have only known Ph & Id as her parents & told that to her children.
Another clue could be that her first child with George Nicol was called Robert Duff Nicol. The last child of JH & EB was William Duff Horn. According to other trees but I cannot find a baptism for him which is possibly because his father died just before he was born. I have tried to contact the other tree owners to find out where the name came from but no luck so far.

[Forfarian]

You seem to be quite happy to accept that William Duff Horn was an unrecorded son of JH and EB, but not that Helen Horn was an unrecorded daughter of PH and ID?

As for Helen of JH and EB being adopted at 2½, what happened to her various siblings? Were they adopted too?

James Horn, mmn Barron, died in Drumblade in 1878 aged 82. In 1851 he was in the census in Drumblade, birthplace Drumblade.

Alexander Horn, mmn Barron, died in Huntly in 1858 aged 58. In 1851 he was in the census in Oyne, birthplace given as Drumblade.

Both were older than Helen b 1802, and would have remembered their parents, and if Helen had been adopted by a relative, there would probably still have been contact between her and her siblings?

[agray1949]

William was shown on the Memorial inscription along with his parents but not with his middle name so I am certain he is correct.
I take your point about her siblings so I am still a little unsure.
I have taken a DNA test so I will try the different parent options & see what transpires.
Thanks.

[MaryJL]

George Nicol b.24/3/1812 d.11/7/1887 at Kirktown Inverkeithny     married   21/12/1833 Forgue     Helen Horn b.about 1805 Forgue   d.16/1/1892

1841 Census – carpenter – Oldtown of Haddo, Inverkeithny

George      Nicol      aged 25   Carpenter with apprentice      
Helen      Nicol      aged 35               
George      Nicol      aged 6
James      Nicol      aged 1
Alexander   Gray              aged 14   Agr Labr
William   Meldrum           aged 15    Carpenter’s Appr


Birth      on 17th March 1827 at Forgue – Alexander Gray
      Father – James Gray      Mother – Helen Horn


1851 Census   Address Nr. Midtown Inverkeithny    Carpenter employing 1 man and land 10 acres

George      Nicol      aged 38    head            b.Kennethmont      
Helen      Nicol      aged 46   wife         b.Forgue   
Robert   Duff   Nicol      aged 13   son         b.Inverkeithny
James      Nicol      aged 11   Son         b.     “
John              Nicol      aged 9      Son      b.     “         
Helen      Nicol      aged 6      Dau      b.     “
Alexander   Gray              age 24            b. Forgue   married Jessie Watson

1861 Census   Address   Kemlon Head Inverkeithny Carpenter employing 3 men – Crofter 18 acres

George      Nicol      aged 49
Helen       Nicol      aged 55
Robert       Nicol      aged 24   Son
William         Gray      aged 8   Grandson      b.Forgue
   
1871 Census           Kemlon Head Inverkeithny George Nicol aged 59 and Helen Nicol aged 66

1881 Census             Kemlon Head Inverkeithny

Death   11th July 1887, Kirktown Inverkeithny, George Nicol, age 75, Master Carpenter,
                married to Helen Horn
      Son of George Nicol Master Carpenter deceased and Margaret Nicol nee Nairne deceased
      Progressive paralysis 2 years- Robert Nicol, son, Conland Forgue



Kirkyard of Inverkeithny
stone: 160   
        Helen Nicol   17 Apr 1860
   James Nicol   6 Jul 1879
   George Nicol   11 Jul 1887
   Helen Horn   16 Jan 1892
   William Nicol   20 Apr 1896
   Helen Cran   15 Sep 1933

Alexander Gray born 1827  -  married 24 August 1852 Forgue - Janet Watson

Children        William       Gray      b.c.      1853    Forgue
          Alexander   Gray      b.c.      1854    Inverkeithny
         Helen        Gray      b.20/1/1856   Inverkeithny

Death   27 December 1898, Bogyoch Inverkeithny, Alexander Gray age 71 illegitimate, master
                carpenter married to    Jessie Watson, son of James Gray, deceased and Helen Horn
               deceased
          Cause of death – chronic bronchitis – informant William Gray, son 33 Bank Street
               Aberdeen

[niffler]

I am certain these two Helens are different people, notwithstanding missing baptismal and death records. Here is my rationale:
My 4x great grandmother is Helen Stephen, daughter of James Stephen and Helen Horn (per baptism and death records for Helen Stephen). I have not been able to locate a marriage record for James and Helen, but their children Ann 1825, Jean 1827 and Helen 1828 born in Gartly are all 'lawful daughters'. The baptismal record for Alexander Gray in 1827 states that his parents James Gray and Helen Horn are 'both unmarried'.

James Stephen appears to have died before 1841 as I can't locate him in the census. In 1841, "my" Helen Horn and daughter Helen Stephen are living in Gartly at Backburn (also the family's residence per baptismal records), so she can't be the Helen Horn who married George Nicol. I'm not sure when my HH died, but I surmise it is either between 1841-1851 OR she remarried after 1841.

I am still looking for further confirmation of my Helen Horn's parentage, but 1802 is a perfect fit for my Helen, aged 38 in 1841 census, so my working hypothesis is that James Horn and Elizabeth Barron are her parents. Peter Horn and Isobel Duncan are clearly linked to your Helen per her death record (a further link is that Peter Horn was a witness at Alexander Gray's baptism). I have also ruled out a Helen Horn born 1796 in Marnoch to John Horn and Isabel Taylor.

I appreciate the information you have shared regarding James Horn, Elizabeth Barron and their son William as I am still fleshing out this branch and this has given me further leads to follow up. It would be interesting to see if a relationship between Peter Horn and James Horn could be established, given the 'Duff' middle name in their respective lines.