James Hardman 1853-1903

[curtainhooks]

Hi,
I haven't been able to find my great great grandfather's parents for a while. I have him on the 1881, 1891 and 1901 censuses, where he's with his wife and children, in which he gives his birth date as 1853-1855 in Prescot and St Helens. On his marriage to Elizabeth Lewis in 1874 he gives his dad as Samuel Hardman, a miner- but I can't find a census that looks like it could be him in 1871 and 1861 as a child. There is a birth record that I thought might be him in 1854, Prescot with a mmn of Hardman, maybe he was illegitimate and made up ''Samuel Hardman''? I might be missing something obvious but seem to be stuck.
Appreciate any help!  thank you,

Censuses for anyone helping:
1881: 12, Taylor Street, Sutton, Prescot.
1891: 69, Hills Moss Lane, Sutton, Prescot (on find my past they're under ''Hardiman'')
1901: 69, Hills Moss Road, St Helens, Prescot (on find my past it's moos not moss)

[rosie99]

Just posting marriage transcript
23 May 1874 St Peter, Parr, Lancashire
James Hardman - (X), above age, Labourer, Bachelor, Parr
Elizabeth Lewis - (X), above age, Spinster, Parr
Groom's Father: Samuel Hardman, Miner
Bride's Father: William Lewis, Smelter
Witnesses Thomas Lewis, (X); Thomas Greenall

[QueenoftheWest]

There is a birth record that I thought might be him in 1854, Prescot with a mmn of Hardman, maybe he was illegitimate and made up ''Samuel Hardman''?

Following this up:

There is an 1861 census entry for a James Hardman, born c.1855 in Eccleston, Lancashire, living with his grandparents, John and Margaret Hardman, and many other family members in Prescot:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7BH-4TM
The only daughter who is living with John and Margaret and feasibly old enough to have children is Elizabeth, born c.1829 in Eccleston. Assuming she is his mother, on 30th May 1864, an Elizabeth Hardman, spinster, marries a Samuel Hayes, miner. Her father is John Hardman, labourer.

In 1871, the family is living in Sutton, Lancashire:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KD6X-JFR

James is down as "step-son" but under the name Heyes.

Could James have used his stepfather's details on his marriage certificate, just changing his surname to match his own? Seems a reasonable theory, unless anyone else has other information.

Queenie 

[softly softly]

queenie, could well be him in 1861.

There is an 1861 census entry for a James Hardman, born c.1855 in Eccleston, Lancashire,
Eccleston comes under Prescot reg district


HARDMAN, JAMES       -  No mmn
GRO Reference: 1854  M Quarter in PRESCOT  Volume 08B  Page 424

John

[curtainhooks]

Thank you Queenie!!
I would never have found that connection, it's definitely the most promising theory- and I think you might be right. The birth record for James Hardman in Prescot seems to be the same James on the census as his siblings have identical birth records with either no mmn or mmn: Hardman.
I don't see any other birth record for James that could be him except this one, so I think it's most likely right.
Thanks again! 

[curtainhooks]

Just looking for his (possible) siblings marriages to see who they put as their dad, and I think Daniel married Ellen Morris in Preston, 1871, and he gives his Dad as Peter Robinson. This makes sense to be him as it's assumed they're illegitimate and he's decided to give his biological father.

There's also a Thomas who marries Jane Jenkins who gives his Dad as ''Peter Hardman'' possibly changing Peter Robinson's last name to match his own as James did with Samuel.

Haven't found one for Ellen, but I think it can be assumed AT LEAST the twins, Daniel and Thomas, had Peter Robinson as their Dad?

[QueenoftheWest]

Glad I was able to help 

In terms of your query regarding the father of Elizabeth's children, I am not really a big fan of assumptions in genealogy. Perhaps Daniel and Thomas believed that their father was Peter, but only DNA could prove this.

There is a Peter Robinson (born c.1827) living in the Eccleston/Prescot area around this time with his wife, Hannah. Strangely enough, he also had children called Daniel, Thomas and Ellen...

Queenie 

[curtainhooks]

Thanks again Queenie, you're right I shouldn't assume Peter Robinson was their dad. I also saw that Peter Robinson, would Elizabeth really have named her children after his children... seems a bit strange but who knows!

Also, sorry to ask another question, but I can't seem to work out who all Samuel Hayes' children's mothers were. From the censuses I think he married Ann (Rider?) first and had: William (1845), Sarah (1847), Ellis (1849), Hannah (1851), Alice (1854), John (1857) and Ashton (1860)- but can't find birth records to prove mothers maiden name as most that I think are them leave it blank.

Then as you helped me find, he married Elizabeth Hardman and- I think- had Samuel Hayes and Mary Hayes with her? Again, can't find birth records with mmn Hardman for them.

Then in 1881 it looks like he re-married again, unless Elizabeth's middle name was Maria, to a woman called Maria. Ashton, Samuel and Mary are living with them but also a son called Dorning Hayes, there is a birth record for him but again no mmn. So not sure if he was Elizabeth's or Maria's.

If anyone could help find out what children were which woman's, and what their maiden names were would be very helpful!
Thank you for any help!! 

[QueenoftheWest]

Then as you helped me find, he married Elizabeth Hardman and- I think- had Samuel Hayes and Mary Hayes with her? Again, can't find birth records with mmn Hardman for them.

HEYES, SAMUEL       HARDMAN 
GRO Reference: 1868  M Quarter in PRESCOT  Volume 08B  Page 683

HACE, MARY       HARDMAN 
GRO Reference: 1865  J Quarter in PRESCOT  Volume 08B  Page 643

As is often the case in this time period, when many people were illiterate, the spellings are very inconsistent. This is why, when I searched on the GRO, I entered Hayes as the surname, but used the dropped down box beside it to select 'include similar sounding variations'.

Queenie