Hugh Hughes b. abt. 1793 St. George

[Mendomaid]

I have found 2 Non-Conformist birth records that might be this Hugh Hughes. He is most likely the father of Edward Hughes b. 9 Nov 1820 Henllan Parish at Pen Palment (farm)(Pen y Palment) on the green. Hugh Hughes' parish is St. George. The mother was Mary Hughes (no spinster after name) of Abergele Parish. https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2972/images/40612_B0151179-00030?pId=1675752

Robert and twin Elizabeth Hughes were born 15 Dec 1821 at Berth, Abergele. Father Hugh Hughes is of Abergele Parish and so is Sarah Williams. Sarah has no spinster after her name. There is a note that the birth happened at the abode of Hugh Hughes.
[url]]https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2972/images/40612_B0151179-00030?pId=1675752

Robert and twin Elizabeth Hughes were born 15 Dec 1821 at Berth, Abergele. Father Hugh Hughes is of Abergele Parish and so is Sarah Williams. Sarah has no spinster after her name. There is a note that the birth happened at the abode of Hugh Hughes.
http://https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/2972/images/40612_B0151179-00169?pId=1676087.

What does the lack of the word spinster mean besides that the children might have been illegitimate?
 
The Edward record show Hugh Hughes of St. George and in Robert and Elizabeth's record it shows as Abergele. The Hugh Hughes of Abergele had a wife, Mary Hughes b. abt 1793 Abergele. There is an 1818 marriage record in Abergele that seems to be this couple. I think that it is unlikely that Mary would have let her husband's illegitimate children born in her home.

AtDNA evidence suggests that Hugh Hughes of St. George was the father of my Great grandfather, Robert Hughes b. 1818 or 1821. It also suggests that he was more distantly related to Hugh Hughes of Abergele or his wife Mary Hughes.

I did have a death record for Mary Hughes mother of Edward Hughes 1820 who died a while after his birth at Pen Palment, Henllan Parish but lost it and have not found it again.

[ciderdrinker]

Hello
There doesn't seem too much to worry about here.You have the marriage for Hugh and Mary and on the other children's baptisms she is given as a spinster ,previous name Mary Hughes and it looks like the Abergele marriage is right.Both single -bach and spinster.Hugh of Henllan .xx
Wit Robert and Elizabeth Hughes. 5.12.1817

Hugh married a Sarah Williams at St George 1.6.1821
Hugh bach of Abergele married Sarah Williams spinster by banns
Both made x
wit John LLoyd and Margaret Jones.
Does that help?

It looks like Hugh and Mary are baptising in Henllan where they had their children  Edward 1820,Hugh 1823,Isaac 1828 ,Joseph 1830 and William 1833

Hugh and Sarah- Robert and Elizabeth 1821 while visiting the other couple,Maria 1824 ,Mary 1826,Dafydd 1828  and John 1832 ,the rest at St George

ps it looks like Mary Hughes bapt 8 Sep 1790 d of Richard and Ellen married Hugh Hughes 1817 was the sister of the other Hugh bapt 27 Nov 1793 ,who seems to have married Sarah Williams.
The other one Hugh seems to be son of Robert and Jane bapt 9.6.1793.


Ciderdrinker

[Mendomaid]

Thank you, Ciderdrinker. This makes a perfectly reasonable story. Where did you find the record of William Hughes 1833 birth? I did not find it when I searched for children of Hugh and Mary.

In Robert's 1891 obits in 2 Welsh American journals it says that "he was one of 5 brothers" sons of Hugh and Mary Hughes. It also has his birth as 9 Nov 1818 at Berth, Abergele.  If I add William as a brother of Robert this removes Edward b. 1820 Henllan. The obits do not mention any sisters.

My Hughes cousins all believe that Robert Hughes was b. 1821 Berth, Abergele and that he was the illegitimate child of Hugh Hughes and Sarah Williams. They believe that he lied about his birth year because he wanted to hide the fact that he was a bastard. In Robert's 1851 and 1861 Wales censuses he gives his age as if he were born in 1818.  I am still researching this as it is not supported by my atDNA evidence.     

[ciderdrinker]

Good Morning
yes  you're right ,no William.
He is the son of a Hugh and Mary Hughes at the same chapel but looking at the original image and not just the index his mother's maiden name is Thomas.So a different couple.
Sorry about that.

Ciderdrinker

[Mendomaid]

Good morning from California, USA.

Not to worry. I am wondering how you found so many records so quickly. You are really an expert searcher. I'm impressed. Which database did you use?

Here is the link to Robert R. Hughes at Find a Grave. I can't read the birth year on the headstone.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/33618960/robert-r-hughes?_gl=1*1vsjsgh*_gcl_au*MTMxNjU3NjYyNy4xNjg3NjIyNjA2*_ga*MTg3ODAzMDAwNi4xNjg3NjIyNjIz*_ga_4QT8FMEX30*NjI2OTdhNzctMDI0Ny00ZDQwLThmZjctNGJhYmUxZTI3NjIwLjEuMS4xNjg3NjIyNjgzLjYwLjAuMA..

Thanks again. You have given me some more ideas and some more information.