Robert Williams Llanaelhaearn 1853 -1920

[Mabel Bagshawe]

This looks interesting. No 5 Common Road, Penmorfa

Jane Williams    49     Nailer's wife (deserted by her husband is crossed out) b Llanystumdwy
Margaret Williams   10    Daughter  b Ynyscynhaian
Robert Roberts    8    Son  b  Llanfihangel y Pennant

Following Jane back, she was married to an Owen Williams, ag lab. There's a marriage between Jane Jones and Owen Williams in Penmorfa in 1834. If Robert wasn't Owen's son, he might use his mother's maiden name? Not sure where Roberts would come from

[collwyn ap tangno]

Thanks, yes, I went down that rabbit hole, this was the only Robert of the right age that I found when I went through the census records for llanfihangel y pennant at the Archives. The Roberts surname makes no sense unless it’s a mistake. I also thought that there was a good chance that this Jane was the same one as the one that registered the birth of a Robert with Owen Williams at Penmorfa.

In the Penmorfa Robert Williams registration, Owen Williams is down as a husbandman on the birth certificate so the occupations don’t match.  Jane’s maiden name is Williams on this document not Jones. The house name is Ty’n Llech, this is near Y Wern.

 I tried to find the cennin road Jane and margaret, robert roberts’s sister in the 1851 census, this was to try to confirm that this was the same Jane i.e. to find her and Margaret living with Owen, but I failed. The ‘nailers wife’ and ‘deserted by her husband’ is intriguing.  5 Cennin Road is near mynydd cennin, it’s a single house now, but it appears to have been multiple dwellings then, one being the smithy, which explains the nailer occupation. If I could find Jane and margaret in 1851 maybe I could discount this family. Maybe the only way to unlock this is to find the birth record of margaret so I can find her father’s name.

[collwyn ap tangno]

GRO update: My own searches of Festiniog district registrations showed three Robert Joneses with a william Jones as a father. I’ve discounted all three because I ‘ve been able to find them in their respective homes in the 1871 census.  None of these had an occupation of shoemaker.

I also asked the GRO to conduct their own search one year either side of january 1852 in llanfihangel y pennant (caernarvonshire) in the Festiniog registration district with William Jones as the father. They returned more than one result so were unable to provide the information.  Has anybody come across this problem with GRO? I’ve asked for references of what they did find but I haven’t had a response. 

[osprey]

it's possible that his birth wasn't registered.

[collwyn ap tangno]

Yes, possibly. My next avenue is to search for williamses in the Ffestiniog district. Thankfully there’s less of them.

I think the problem is Robert knew where he was from when he was a baby but it looks like it’s not where he was registered.

Patronymic naming isn’t helping, I have only an inkling that Robert changed surname because he named his father as William Jones in his wedding certificate.  William Jones might actually be William Williams officially and Robert was always Williams!

[nestagj]

Hi

Have you tried Dolbenmaen parish baptisms, also Penmorfa parish all pretty close to Llanfihangel YP.

Nesta

[collwyn ap tangno]

Diolch Nesta, I’ve exhausted the Jones and Williams search in the GRO. I’m nearly certain now that he wasn’t registered in the Festiniog district so Pwllheli is my next avenue.
I also recognised that the birth year may be wrong, it is consistently 1852 or 1853 except the 1911 census which is 1851.  I found his death certificate, 1920 at Llain Llan, Llanaelhaearn aged 68, so 1852 again.
I found a Robert Jones  1851 born in Denïo living in Penmorfa parish in the 1861 census with a father named William Jones (born abererch), mother called catherine( born abererch) and a sister called Pheoby (born llanllyfni).  The address is Cerrig Pryfaid in Golan, on the border with Llanfihangel y pennant. William’s occupation is agr labourer but at the same address is a shoemaker so may explain why Robert later said his father was a shoemaker in his marriage certificate. If I can find William’s death certificate maybe this will confirm that this is the correct family because it’ll have his occupation on it.

I found this Robert’s birth certificate, it says that the father is again an agr Labourer but I haven’t found Pheoby’s which may say something different.

I think I may be on the right track but more work is required to be sure.

Does anyone have access to burial records at tai duon cemetery? or  dolbenmaen or llanfihangel y pennant? Robert Williams (died 1920) may be buried in one of these as well as his wife Laura and possibly his parents also.

So far I’ve visited Llanaelhaearn, Llannor, capel helyg, llangybi, llanarmon, capel uchaf, chwilog, llanystumdwy (x2) and trefor cemeteries so these can be discounted.

Hwyl

[nestagj]

@ Pleasure !

I have Jones and Roberts coming out of my ears in that area also.

I do not know where the original records are but last time I looked there were copies of all the registers at the Church in Dolbenmaen.   The lady who helped us lived at the farm just after turning onto the the Garndolbenmaen.   

I'm desperate for the actual burial plan for the cemetery as I cannot find my GG grandparents grave despite being taken there by mum and aunt as a young adult.  I know there was a stone there.

If you come across one please let me know.

Nesta

[collwyn ap tangno]

https://www.chtgwyneddfhs.cymru/en/shop/products/memorial-inscriptions/memorial-inscriptions-western-caernarfonshire/

Memorial inscriptions are available to buy. I was hoping somebody had copies to save me the legwork!