Griffiths family from Bagillt causing aggravation!

[Marie Baker]

I am endeavouring to research my maternal ancestors who were mostly born in Bagillt.
In particular I really need to find the maiden name of my G Grandmother Mary.
In the 1940 census I have the Griffiths family in Coleshill back or Bach, all born in the county.
John aged 50 a Carter.
Mary his wife aged 45.
Mary daughter aged 15
Ann  daughter aged 10
May daughter aged 10
Caroline daughter aged 7

In 1851 census
John aged 57  carrier born Bagillt
Mary aged 56 born Bagillt
Caroline aged 18 born Bagillt
Thomas aged 3 ,my G Grandfather. Born Liverpool.

I was hoping to find  a marriage for John and Mary, or births for the children in order to ascertain Mary’s maiden name but have been unable to find anything.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated,thank you.

[osprey]

non conformist baptism  Calvinistic Methodist Carlina born 8 March 1832daughter of John & Mary Griffiths of Coleshill, mmn Bellis bp 18 March 1832
Also Margaret born 12 Aug 1827 bp 30 Aug 1827

Marriage 15 Aug 1815 Holywell John Griffiths & Mary Bellis, one of the witnesses is Margaret Bellis.

[Marie Baker]

Thank you for your reply,
I had seen the entry for Carlina but dismissed it as there was no mention of a sibling called Margaret anywhere, John was described as a farmer,not a carrier or Carter, and the miss spelling of Caroline.
I did wonder if maybe the child called Margaret Bellis had died in infancy. If she was born in 1926 she couldn’t have witnessed the marriage in 1915, but then I suppose that might have been her mother!
It’s all so confusing , especially when so many families in the same area have the same names!!!

[osprey]

I think the child transcribed as May in 1841 could be Margaret.

Baptisms in Holywell
15 Nov 1829 Ann daughter of John, carter, & Mary Griffith of Bagiilt
20 Feb 1825 Elizabeth daughter of John, carter, & Mary Griffiths of Bagillt
Haven't found an alternate baptism for Caroline as yet.

 

[Dundee]

Yes, the child you have named as 'May' in the 1841 census is actually Marg^t

In 1851 census
John aged 57  carrier born Bagillt
Mary aged 56 born Bagillt
Caroline aged 18 born Bagillt
Thomas aged 3 ,my G Grandfather. Born Liverpool.

If Thomas is your ancestor do you know who his parents were?  It is unlikely to be John and Mary.

Debra 

[Talacharn]

Considering their ages in 1841, they could have married earlier and had other children no longer living at the home. He was born 1790 and she was born 1795, and married from around 1810.
Taking their ages from 1851, he was born 1793 and she was born 1794.

By 1816, they would be 22/23 years old:
St Mary the Virgin Parish Register Halkyn Flintshire
Marriage: 04 Mar 1816
John Griffiths . Mary Hodkinson of Halkyn

With their ages, is Thomas their son, or grandson?

[Marie Baker]

Well now I am even more confused!
I had never considered the ages of John and Mary in relation to Thomas being their son, but there is a big age gap between him and Caroline. I know it’s not impossible for women to have a surprise baby when they think they are past the menopause, but aged 53 does seem to be stretching it a bit far!
So if John and Mary are not his parents who are? and how do I pin down a Thomas Griffiths born 1847 in Liverpool from amongst dozens of them!

[osprey]

Who does he name as his father on his marriage certificate?

Have you traced the older daughters of John & Mary to see where they end up?

[Marie Baker]

Thomas names his father as John Griffiths, Engine driver, on his marriage cert 2nd July 1870 at the
? Hethebosh Chapel Whitford mills Holywell, to Elenor Jones.
Bride and groom were both living at Pentre Bagillt, and witnesses were John Jones and Jane or Janet Roberts.
As for the older daughters I can’t pin them down either!