HAWKINS family of Leeds

[Webby]

I've had a look at all the baptisms for the Hawkins family...I do have Ancestry sub, so that was good.  The last bit of info I have for Francis was when his army pay was stopped at his death...which gave the date of death - hence applying for the certificate. 

But that item did not say anything about burial.  I wondered whether there was a Chelsea Hospital in Leeds for old soldiers and did that have it's own burial section?? I'll have a bit more of a look.  I also checked the Beckett St burials, but that seems to be C/E.

Webby.

[arthurk]

Just thinking a bit more about this:

Francis Hawkins bc 1788-1791 in Ireland and enlisted in the 5th Dragoon Guards...

Francis was given a pension at his discharge in 1821.  His death occurred May of 1847 in Leeds.....but cannot find his burial

I can see his Death Reg but cant seem to find him or the younger children in 1841 Census?

HAWKINS, FRANCIS age 70 
GRO Reference: 1847  J Quarter in LEEDS  Volume 23  Page 346

If he was born around 1790 (give or take a bit), he'd only have been around 57 in 1847, so is this the right death entry? You might have the certificate now and be able to answer that, but I was wondering whether with not having found him in 1841, he might have moved somewhere else. Do you have Mary in 1841 or is she missing too?

(If that death isn't his, we still don't have a burial to match it, but if it's not him, that might be for someone else to worry about.)

Then from your latest post:

I've had a look at all the baptisms for the Hawkins family...I do have Ancestry sub, so that was good.  The last bit of info I have for Francis was when his army pay was stopped at his death...which gave the date of death - hence applying for the certificate.

Did the army/pension record say anything about where he died, or his next of kin?

But that item did not say anything about burial.  I wondered whether there was a Chelsea Hospital in Leeds for old soldiers and did that have it's own burial section?? I'll have a bit more of a look.  I also checked the Beckett St burials, but that seems to be C/E.

I'm not aware of any of my ancestors being career soldiers, but I have been researching Leeds for a long time, and I don't ever remember hearing of anything like an outpost of Chelsea Hospital. Many army pensioners simply lived like everyone else while receiving their pension. There was an army barracks in Leeds, but I don't know if they would ever accommodate anyone but serving soldiers.

And on Beckett Street - it's not just C of E. In fact it was one of the earliest burial grounds that wasn't run by the church. There were, of course, a lot of C of E burials there, and these are in the sections described as Consecrated, but there have always been Unconsecrated sections, where non-conformist burials took place. I think I once read that this included RC burials, so possibly the priest performed any act of consecration that was thought necessary on individual graves.

(Leeds also has a large RC cemetery at Killingbeck, but this opened much later, I think in the 1890s.)

[Webby]

Morning....thanks for your help with this family!.

Francis' discharge papers give his age as being 41 years of age and that he enlisted in 1801 and discharged in 1821.  Pension date was the 25/7/1821 but as to where he was discharged?  He was born in Drum in Roscommon and I do know that his wife Mary was also the daughter of an earlier 5th Regiment of Dragoons member....yet to find her father (could be Dooling/Doolan??).

But then in another document gives his same place of birth as Drum in Roscommon, his date of death being 1847 when his pension stopped, he was a shoemaker and gave his height etc.

Death certificate won't arrive for a few days yet...I didn't realise that the certificates available online you also have to wait for a few days before they are available!.  Anyway, will have to wait.

If that certificate is the incorrect Francis...then the 1841 Census in Leeds - shows not one of the family, so you may be right in thinking that the family had moved away from the area.. considering at least three or four of their kids ended up being transported - a tad embarrassed?  An even worse scenario is that there was another family with a Francis and Mary Hawkins in Leeds with similar children's names and approximate dates!.

I'll see if I can find the Catholic cemetery you mentioned and check that out if possible. 

Cheers,

Webby 

[jonw65]

WO 22: Royal Hospital Chelsea: Returns of Payment of Army and Other Pensions

Quarterly Return of Changes which have taken place among the Out-Pensioners
of Chelsea Hospital, in the Leeds District, from the 1st April to the 30th June 1847, inclusive

Pensions ceased by death
Francis Hawkins
Regt. 5th D Gds
Rate of Pension 9
Date of Admission 12 Sepr 21
Rank Privt
Pension Permanent
Date of Decease 30th May 1847
Age at Decease 68

[arthurk]

Thanks, Jon - that does all seem to tie in. If I'd read Webby's first post a bit more closely, I might have picked up the discrepancy earlier:

Francis Hawkins bc 1788-1791 in Ireland and enlisted in the 5th Dragoon Guards in 1801 he married Mary (perhaps Doolan/Dooling/Mullins??) (whose father name unknown atm) was also in the 5th Dragoons at an earlier time.

I'm not sure whether the 1801 goes with the preceding bit about enlistment or the following bit about marriage, but he couldn't have done either at the age of 10-13, so he must have been born well before 1788.

So yes, the death certificate that's on its way does at this point seem to be the right one, but subject to confirmation when it arrives.

Which still leaves the question of where he was buried (the death cert might offer further clues based on exactly where he was living), and where he was in 1841.