Looking for will (in PCC per Death Duty Register)

[Watson]

Has Alexander found a marriage record for Edward and Mary Ann?

[BushInn1746]

I am trying to find a copy of the will of Mary Ann Butcher who died in Lambeth, Surrey in 1846.

There is an entry in the Death Duty Register index in 1847, which says the court was "PC" which I presume is the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. However I have been unable to find the will in the PCC registers either on Ancestry or TNA.

Wondered if it might be an administration, but those are usually indexed as such.

If no luck I'll plan to check the Death Duty Register itself, to see if that clarifies things, but it will be some time before I have chance to do so.

Any ideas on where to find this will?

Thanks

Alexander

We ordered an Inland Revenue Duty Volume Entry (Opening of 2 pages) from TNA for a H surname.

The Duty Index image (on f m p) under Name and Year the Will was Proved, gave the IR original Folio number.

We searched TNA Discovery under "IR 26" using the Probate Year of 1846 and then looked for the Volume which contained both Surname H and our Folio number in the TNA Discovery descriptions, to obtain the full TNA, Kew Cat Ref.

Using the full Cat Ref., his name, place of residence, the Folio number and the Proved year of 1846, we got a price and then ordered the suggested A3 Colour photograph.

Sent in a downloadable link.

Some added notes are tiny, but as it was done at A3 Colour, we can expand it on the computer screen and read it all.

I already had images of the Will, Proved at the Prerogative Court of York (PC York). Ours was never Proved PCC. Some Wills Proved at York and elsewhere can also be Proved PCC.

There were several TNA Cat Refs for 1846 and Surname H, so anyone ordering needs the correct Folio number as well.

IR 26/1740 at TNA, Kew
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_cr=IR%2026%2F1740&_dss=range&_ro=any&_st=adv

Mark

[Alexander.]

Has Alexander found a marriage record for Edward and Mary Ann?

Hi Watson,

Yes, Edward married Mary Ann Hill in 1826 in Kennington, Surrey.

[Watson]

Thanks, Alexander.  They were definitely married, then. 

Absence of a PCC will is puzzling.  It could be worth checking the PCC administrations.  I suppose an administration could arise if the executor renounced the will.  It's not unknown to renounce in favour of a creditor if the testator owed him money, though one would normally expect that to be reflected in the d.d. index entry. 

[BushInn1746]

I am trying to find a copy of the will of Mary Ann Butcher who died in Lambeth, Surrey in 1846.

There is an entry in the Death Duty Register index in 1847, which says the court was "PC" which I presume is the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. However I have been unable to find the will in the PCC registers either on Ancestry or TNA.

Wondered if it might be an administration, but those are usually indexed as such.

If no luck I'll plan to check the Death Duty Register itself, to see if that clarifies things, but it will be some time before I have chance to do so.

Any ideas on where to find this will?

Thanks

Alexander

The image of the Duty Index only says it was "PC" so probably Proved in a 'Prerogative Court'.

Indexed by f m p as 1847 the image says ...
Butcher Mary Ann, Little Moor Pl [or St] Lambeth, Executor Edw'd Butcher, 3 Fife Ter Lambeth, PC, Folio 180 [characters after 180 uncertain]

These Inland Revenue Duty Indexes are not always clear as to Will or Admin?

Diocesan Archives covering an English area also hold Wills and associated paperwork, although some of these Archives in England have been taken over by County Archives.

It might be worth asking the Archives covering Surrey and Lambeth, e.g. ...

"Lambeth Palace Library has placed an index online to wills proved in this court (1614-1841)."

[jonw65]

The image of the Duty Index only says it was "PC" so probably Proved in a 'Prerogative Court'.

TNA guide
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/death-duties-1796-1903/

"The column headed ‘Court’ indicates where the will was proved or the administration granted. For William Lock the ‘Court’ column entry shows his will was proved in a court in Buckinghamshire. Other entries in this section of the index are listed as ‘PC’ in this column – this indicates that those wills were proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury."

[characters after 180 uncertain]

NE = No entry (or not entered)
No one has come up with an alternative meaning, and there is no entry in the register, according to the OP

The TNA guide .... suggests that in cases where there is no d.d. record, no folio reference is given

But, to date, Watson has failed to substantiate this with any examples with no folio numbers in the 1847 indexes.

These Inland Revenue Duty Indexes are not always clear as to Will or Admin?

They are very clear. It's a will, with a named Executor

TNA
"The ‘Testator’ and ‘Executor’ columns indicate that this entry refers to a will rather than an administration (entries for administrations would not include these columns and there would, instead, be columns headed ‘Intestate’ and ‘Name of Administrator’).

[Watson]

I was merely quoting (verbatim) what the TNA guide says.  I haven't been trying to "substantiate" it.

[BushInn1746]

The image of the Duty Index only says it was "PC" so probably Proved in a 'Prerogative Court'.

TNA guide
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/death-duties-1796-1903/

"The column headed ‘Court’ indicates where the will was proved or the administration granted. For William Lock the ‘Court’ column entry shows his will was proved in a court in Buckinghamshire. Other entries in this section of the index are listed as ‘PC’ in this column – this indicates that those wills were proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury."

[characters after 180 uncertain]

NE = No entry (or not entered)
No one has come up with an alternative meaning, and there is no entry in the register, according to the OP

The TNA guide .... suggests that in cases where there is no d.d. record, no folio reference is given

But, to date, Watson has failed to substantiate this with any examples with no folio numbers in the 1847 indexes.

These Inland Revenue Duty Indexes are not always clear as to Will or Admin?

They are very clear. It's a will, with a named Executor

TNA
"The ‘Testator’ and ‘Executor’ columns indicate that this entry refers to a will rather than an administration (entries for administrations would not include these columns and there would, instead, be columns headed ‘Intestate’ and ‘Name of Administrator’).

Hello Alexander, Jon, Watson and All

The link to TNA from Jon suggests a Will.

Jon has said and the TNA also say Prerogative Court of Canterbury for PC.

Lettering far right of image. Other scribbled and better formed similar lettering on previous pages, suggests NE?

I have also heard of Not Executed in respect of Wills. However, I don't have knowledge of this IR 27 Duty Index lettering.

I agree with Watson that there is a Folio reference of 180 in this Duty Index. These should correspond to the IR 26 Duty Register.
 ----------
Transcribe the Duty Index entry and ask TNA about a Will? ...
https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/contact-us/make-a-records-and-research-enquiry/make-a-records-and-research-enquiry-form/

Mark

[Watson]

There's no doubt that the index entry relates to a will, and it also says the court was PCC.  The trick is to find the d.d. register entry, if there is one.

Alexander refers in his searches to page numbers, where I would expect him to say folio numbers.  Are there page numbers in addition to the folio numbers?  Is there any possibility he has looked at page 180 instead of folio 180?