Author Topic: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record  (Read 1085 times)

Offline Grohls-wife

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Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« on: Monday 17 July 23 20:43 BST (UK) »
One of my ancestors are proving really difficult, I keep going back to her to try and find the rest of her tree but I've hit the brick wall SO MANY TIMES lol, I cannot find her birth certificate or death certificate for her names listed. Brief breakdown of all the information I have gathered along with multiple spellings of names and also a random surname that popped up, could be the reason why I cant find a matching birth certificate?

Name - Hannah Jane Quate nee Martin
According to Census 1901/1911
Age 32/42 meaning her approx birth year was 1869
Born Co. Antrim


Marriage Certificate 1889 Kilbride
James Quate (husband)
Anna Jane Martin - Father James Martin
Her name is 'Anna Jane' on certificate.

She went on to have 7 children
On 2 children's birth certificates she is named 'formerly Greenlees' this puzzled me! Any explanation for this is welcome.
On one of her childs certificates her forename is Ann.
And 4 of the other certificates are all Hannah Jane, some are misspelled Quaite/Quait.

Her Will reads Hannah Jane Quate, died 3 December 1937. I cannot trace a death certificate for this date under the GRONI website. I've tried all the variations of Quate/Quait/Quaite and even Qwate

I have searched through all Births of 'Unknown Martin' born around 1869 with the father listed as 'James' within the approximate area of Antrim. No luck

I have searched for Greenlees for the possibility that 'James Martin' who was listed on her Marriage certificate may have been her stepfather. Not much luck with that though.

Main location would be Co. Antrim, Kilbride, Doagh.

ANY help or explanation at all I would be very grateful  🙏

Online Jon_ni

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Re: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 19 July 23 00:50 BST (UK) »
Some of the handwriting is hard to read, there are transcription errors, typos. They could have the surname starting with C and the year as 1973 instead of 1937. There are rare index entry errors like that such that you would never find - I checked an "1874" marriage enhanced index entry the other week and it showed a DOB for the groom & bride of 1950 & 1953 so reported it as an error for 1974 without viewing the image - accepted. That doesn't help you though.

There is a death notice for James Northern Whig 14 May 1927. Died 12 May 1927 of Mill Row, Doagh, husband of Hannah Jane Quate. Interred Kilbride burying-ground today (Saturday) at 2 pm.
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=BL/0001542/19270514/002

I take that to be the one beside the Presbyterian Church managed by ANBC with the suggestion to contact them for a search but that there is limited information available. https://antrimandnewtownabbey.gov.uk/residents/births-deaths-marriages-civil-partnerships/cemeteries/

Belfast Telegraph 4 December 1937 3 death notices for Hannah Jane died 4th Dec, interred Kilbride
https://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=BL/0002318/19371204/344 and with 3 free views available on British Newspaper Archive on registration before need a sub and can narrow down to that paper. At 5 Mill Row, Doagh, interment Mon 6th Dec; daughters Nellie & James Surgenor, Maggie & Alexander Thompson; Sarah & Ina.

If you want age could phone GRONI and see if they can find as she definitely died that date.
Her full Will would be available from PRONI for a fee via their research service if of sufficient interest.

http://www.doaghancestry.co.uk/churches-graveyards/

Online Jon_ni

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Re: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 19 July 23 03:46 BST (UK) »
Quate   1901/11 census
James             39   50
Hannah Jane   32   42   (22 yrs 5 children all living)
Ellen Jane        11   21   b.13 Jan 1890 Greenlees
Mary                 9   19   b.25 Aug 1891 Martin   d.25 Jun 1915 aged 23
Sarah               7   17   b.23 Apr 1893 Greenlees [as Quail/Quait]
William             3   13   b.13 Jun 1897 Martin   d.5 Jun 1918 aged 20
Maggie               -   7   b.17 Jan 1904 Martin

James   Quate   7 Aug 1908    Martin    Antrim [not on 1911, no death]
Jemima    Quate    11 Apr 1911    Martin    Antrim

Marriage https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10721/5908439.pdf
Moyra is near Brookfield (Burnside village today) in townland of Douglasland - PRONI maps = where Kilbride Primary School is today.
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-upper/kilbride/kilbride/douglasland/

There are no Martins or Greenlees in Douglasland but a Catherine Greenleas is present in Burnside 1888?-1909 VAL/12/B/1/20D & E and F and was there till 1926 but can't find on either census  https://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Val12b/Large%20JPeg/IRELBEL1D_002R1/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-1-20F/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-1-20F_M_016.jpg

A Catherine Greenlees, widow of Craig, died Burnside 1895 aged 71 registered by daughter Jane Blair of Douglasland (married John Blair 1878 in presence of James & Margaret Greenlees)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05917/4679803.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1878/11106/8064873.pdf

A Jane Greenlees born Dunamoy Rashee 1868 was illegitimate daughter of Jane Greenlees & registered by a Catherine Greenlees.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03432/2259524.pdf
& a bachelor James Martin aged 40 died in the adjoining townland of Carlea 1889. Other than that I can't find a James Martin nearby or a marriage for one in Antrim/Ballymena/Larne.

Offline aghadowey

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Re: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 19 July 23 08:23 BST (UK) »
There was a Sarah Martin, father James, born 19 July 1868 at Ballyclare. Mother was Mary Ann Hagan according to GRONI but writing hard to make out on actual registration so could possibly be Hogan.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03432/2259532.pdf
Can't see any other children with those parents in Antrim registration district, deaths for Sarah or either parent. They could have moved out of the area but wonder if this could be Hannah registered
under a different Christian name. I've come across this a few times where a person was originally given one name but later used a completely different name (school record, marriage, death) and in those cases it was a baptism record that confirmed it was same person (same parents & date of birth).
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!


Offline Grohls-wife

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Re: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 19 July 23 19:40 BST (UK) »
There was a Sarah Martin, father James, born 19 July 1868 at Ballyclare. Mother was Mary Ann Hagan according to GRONI but writing hard to make out on actual registration so could possibly be Hogan.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1868/03432/2259532.pdf
Can't see any other children with those parents in Antrim registration district, deaths for Sarah or either parent. They could have moved out of the area but wonder if this could be Hannah registered
under a different Christian name. I've come across this a few times where a person was originally given one name but later used a completely different name (school record, marriage, death) and in those cases it was a baptism record that confirmed it was same person (same parents & date of birth).

Hi, I also considered Sarah Martin also, there is also a Sarah Quate who died in April 1937 but does not match the date on her will which was Dec 1937. Definitely one to consider, as the location is accurate, I just wasnt convinced with the name Sarah, I was looking for similar names like Jane or Ann, thankyou

Offline Grohls-wife

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Re: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 19 July 23 19:51 BST (UK) »
Quate   1901/11 census
James             39   50
Hannah Jane   32   42   (22 yrs 5 children all living)
Ellen Jane        11   21   b.13 Jan 1890 Greenlees
Mary                 9   19   b.25 Aug 1891 Martin   d.25 Jun 1915 aged 23
Sarah               7   17   b.23 Apr 1893 Greenlees [as Quail/Quait]
William             3   13   b.13 Jun 1897 Martin   d.5 Jun 1918 aged 20
Maggie               -   7   b.17 Jan 1904 Martin

James   Quate   7 Aug 1908    Martin    Antrim [not on 1911, no death]
Jemima    Quate    11 Apr 1911    Martin    Antrim

Marriage https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1889/10721/5908439.pdf
Moyra is near Brookfield (Burnside village today) in townland of Douglasland - PRONI maps = where Kilbride Primary School is today.
https://www.townlands.ie/antrim/antrim-upper/kilbride/kilbride/douglasland/

There are no Martins or Greenlees in Douglasland but a Catherine Greenleas is present in Burnside 1888?-1909 VAL/12/B/1/20D & E and F and was there till 1926 but can't find on either census  https://apps.proni.gov.uk/DCAL_PRONI_Val12b/Large%20JPeg/IRELBEL1D_002R1/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-1-20F/IRELBEL1D_VAL-12B-1-20F_M_016.jpg

A Catherine Greenlees, widow of Craig, died Burnside 1895 aged 71 registered by daughter Jane Blair of Douglasland (married John Blair 1878 in presence of James & Margaret Greenlees)
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1895/05917/4679803.pdf
A Jane Greenlees born Dunamoy Rashee 1868 was illegitimate daughter of Jane Greenlees & registered by a Catherine Greenlees; a bachelor James Martin aged 40 died in the adjoining townland of Carlea 1889. Other than that I can't find a James Martin nearby or a marriage for one in Antrim/Ballymena/Larne.

Hi, you have Ellen Jane and Sarah down as Greenlees, was this on the census?

I also considered Jane Greenlees as a possibility, I have seen this before where a child has been born illegitimately but later on the marriage certificate a fathers name is present (although necessarily the real father) all the locations you have mentioned would definitely be in her area, thankyou

Online Jon_ni

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Re: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 20 July 23 00:21 BST (UK) »
Quote
Hi, you have Ellen Jane and Sarah down as Greenlees, was this on the census?

no I was pasting info from census and births & deaths into notepad, that is mother's maiden surname on births as you had already said, was checking the original images myself.

Residence on marriage is typically the Townland but in that area have seen the hamlets used instead so looked on the old OS 6" maps on PRONI and saw her residence on the cert was Myra and his Brookfield, par of Kilbride. The road past the school is Moyra Rd today and the collection of houses marked as Moyra on the 1902-50 odd maps.

Hannah Jane & the Quaite's burial plot is actually on Everafter
https://discovereverafter.com/profile/17754296

Hannah J Quaite. Date of Birth - Unknown. Date of Death 4 Dec 1937.
Date of Burial - Unknown. Age 69. = 1868

Plot Old/30. Looks like a double-triple width plot with no headstones, but possibly a marker for the Thompsons of the 1970's.

Others in this plot
    Thomas Quaite Died 10 Dec 1894
    Mary Quaite Died 28 Jun 1915
    Thomas Cleverly Died 26 Jul 1916
    William Quaite Died 5 Jun 1918
    James Quaite Died 12 May 1927 aged 64.
    Mary Quaite Died 18 Apr 1946
    Sarah Quaite Died 12 Feb 1966
    Alexander Thompson Died 4 Jun 1979
    Margaret Thompson Died 4 Oct 1970

don't know why it doesn't come up when search via the ANBC portal though I now see it keeps autofilling in Site:Carnmoney https://antrimandnewtownabbey.discovereverafter.com/

Online Jon_ni

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Re: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 20 July 23 00:54 BST (UK) »
Thomas Cleverly was an infant who died Belfast, son of David & Margaret.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1916/05239/4451311.pdf
his mother was Margaret Ellen nee Blair.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1916/01346/1555506.pdf
daughter of John Blair per her marriage to David Cleverly of the Royal Sussex Regiment https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1909/10023/5645878.pdf

their other children were the following 6 but none before 1912 https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-perform-search.jsp?namel=cleverly&type=B&submit=Search&sort=date&keywordb=blair

I don't see her on census in Ireland, with David Cleverly being a soldier 1909 stationed Victoria Barracks, Belfast nor in English census but he could be C D at Curragh Military Camp, married aged 24. He was a Carter on the 1912-14 births so presumably signed up again WW1 by Thomas's birth & death.

Margaret Ellen Blair was the daughter of John Blair and Jane formerly Greenlees of Kilbride, Kilbride and the birth was registered by Catherine Greenlees of Carnlea!! So of the marriage mentioned yesterday.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1882/02774/2018195.pdf

Kilbride Presbyterian baptisms are searchable on the Doagh site above http://www.doaghancestry.co.uk/search-family-names/kilbride-presbyterian-baptisms/
There were no Greenlees or Quate/Quaite so perhaps Ballyeaston or Ballyclare Presby.
However Samuel son of John Blair & Jane Greenlees of Myra 27th Oct. 1887 / 6th Jan. 1888 was baptised there.

Online Jon_ni

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Re: Help finding Hannah Quate birth record
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 20 July 23 01:37 BST (UK) »
Your tree might have expanded a bit  :)

Bella,1875 of Dunamoy, Rashee illegitimate daughter of Jane Greenless registered by Catherine Greenless https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03093/2133935.pdf

James Craig Blair 17 May 1880 (Greenlees) / Margaret Ellen Blair 27 Aug 1882 (Greenlees) / Martha Blair 30 May 1885 (Greenlees) at Douglasland, died aged 9 1895 / Samuel Blair 27 Oct 1887 (Greenlees) at Kilbride, Kilbride.

1901 census is a struggle though for them & children unless https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1899/05799/4640655.pdf
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Kilbride/Village_of_Burnside/919126/

Margaret Ellen & David Cleverly + 2 others are also interred Kilbride https://discovereverafter.com/profile/17752905 David was 71 1960 (1889, but actually 1887 Hastings, Sussex).

Thomas Quaite, the 1st internment (online that is), aged 16 died 10 Dec 1894 Burnside, Kilbride & registered by James - who is he, must have been born year of James & Hannah's marriage - nephew?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1894/05952/4691360.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1878/02945/2078691.pdf

David Cleverly / D Cloverly Service number 8016 & 6392676
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM/LIVES/857786 extracted from info on
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/857786 check the other tabs
https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM/WO363-4/7303396/14/340 WW1 Burnt Records

Some interesting contents in that. Thomas's death cert 1916, Baptismal cert St Anne's, Belfast.
David born 23 Jan 1887 attested c.3 Sep 1904 underage at 17 7mo saying was 18 7mo and mother requested him discharged as underage and attached his birth cert. David signed a statement he wished not to be discharged and decision was put to the GOC who approved & overruled mother.
Was re-mobilised 6 Aug 1914 but discharged unfit 1916. Elizabeth was 1st child.