Employment/Accommodation records - Glasgow c1900

[StephenEThomas]

Hi,

I am trying to confirm that the person I believe to be my Great-Grandfather was living and working in Glasgow between 1898-1900.

My great grandmother was Jane/Jeanie/Jennie Macarthur b 1871 in Glasgow. She marries Benjamin Thomas in August 1900 in Manchester and then gives birth to my grandfather Benjamin Thomas in November 1900.

I suspect that their relationship began sometime in 1897, that Jennie became pregnant and gave birth to her first child in 1898 in Glasgow, claimed it was the child of another man, and then became pregnant again in 1900 before following Benjamin down to Manchester to marry.

My suspicion is that Benjamin Thomas b.1869 was the existing husband of Jennie's cousin, that he was a boilermaker/riveter from Birkenhead, and that he was working away from home at the shipyards in Glasgow.

The Benjamin Thomas I suspect only ever occurs in the census where he should be, i.e. in his family home in Birkenhead, or as a younger man as a boilermaker in Barrow in Furness. I am looking to see if there are any other records that could place him in Glasgow between 1897 and 1900.

Scotlands People seems focussed on BMD/Census records, does anyone know of any other records that may support this search betwee 1897 and 1900?

Thanks

Steve

[CaroleW]

Who was the first child - do you have the birth cert?

If you suspect he was the husband of her cousin - There is a 1911 entry for Benjamin Thomas b Birkenhead with wife Bessie Rose nee McIntyre b Glasgow & 2 children.  Bessie only died 2.7.1836 and as they were together in 1911 he can't be the Benjamin Thomas who married Jenny in 1900

Benjamin & Bessie married in Liverpool 1894

Both the 1894 & 1900 marriages show as registrar attended (civil marriage) so cannot be looked up in parish records

[StephenEThomas]

Hi,

thanks for your reply. Yes you're spot on, I suspect however that he was bigamously married to both cousins at the same time. This is why I am trying to find evidence that he was working in Glasgow during the key times.

For a few reasons I have long suspected that the details on the marriage certificate for Ben and Jennie had some deliberate mistruths. The fact that Jennie's cousin was *also* married to a Benjamin Thomas seems like one coincidence too many, and the fact that his profession would have made employment in Birkenhead/Barrow/Manchester and Glasgow all possible makes me feel he is a very strong candidate.

I have only circumstantial evidence for this, hence my desire to find something which places a Ben Thomas from Birkenhead in Glasgow during these times, but which allows him to be at home in Birkenhead during the census.

Oh yes, the first child was John McIntyre Macarthur, born feb 1898 and with no father on the birth certificate. A later court document states that the father was John Hamilton from 4 Wilton St Glasgow, but I suspect due to DNA evidence that John McIntyre Macarthur and my grandfather Benjamin Thomas had the same father. Whather or not this was Benjamin Thomas from Birkenhead remains to be proven.

[Forfarian]

Scotlands People seems focussed on BMD/Census records

That's because those are the main records, and they are in the care of SP.

does anyone know of any other records that may support this search betwee 1897 and 1900?

Have you tried the Valuation Rolls on SP? Though I'd be surprised if he featured because these records list only householders, and he probably wasn't a householder.

The other records that might possibly include him are the registers of electors, but they are not available online, and unless you had an address to target it would be a very long job to check all the names in Glasgow in one year, never mind several years. Depends how determined you are The registers of electors are most readily available in the Mitchell Library in Glasgow.

There are trade and street directories in the digital gallery on the National Library of Scotland web site, but again he would only be listed if he was a householder or in business rather than being a lodger or employee.

[Forfarian]

One thing I would do if I were you is look at the names of the fathers of Benjamin Thomas on the two marriage certificates. If both have the same name and occupation for the father, then your hypothesis about bigamy becomes more likely.

If the fathers named are different, then it's not bigamy (unless he's lying, of course).

Is it possible that your DNA evidence is from the maternal side? Or that John Hamilton was the father of Jennie's second child as well?

[CaroleW]

Where are Benjamin & Jenny in 1901 & 1911

[StephenEThomas]

Where are Benjamin & Jenny in 1901 & 1911

'Jeanie' Thomas is in Handsworth in Birmingham with her baby son Benjamin in 1901. Benjamin (if I am right) is in Birkenhead with his wife Bessie.

In 1911 Benjamin is still in Birkenhead. Jane Thomas 'Lewis' is in Bristol with new husband William Lewis and daughters Maud Thomas and Hilda Lewis. It's all very complicated

[StephenEThomas]

One thing I would do if I were you is look at the names of the fathers of Benjamin Thomas on the two marriage certificates. If both have the same name and occupation for the father, then your hypothesis about bigamy becomes more likely.

If the fathers named are different, then it's not bigamy (unless he's lying, of course).

Is it possible that your DNA evidence is from the maternal side? Or that John Hamilton was the father of Jennie's second child as well?

I suspect lying. The parent stated for Benjamin Thomas (Philip Thomas) just generates no good hits, it feels contrived.

DNA evidence is a very strong DNA link between the descendants of John McIntyre Macarthur (Adopted as John Kirkwood) and Benjamin Thomas. Looking at the relationship as half 1st/2nd cousins it should be max 250cm but it is over 530cms, which suggests that they had the same father. It could of course be that John Hamilton was the father of both as much as Benjamin Thomas, but Benjamin Thomas being the father of one on the birth certificate, and the marriage certificate etc makes me lean towards this.

Thanks for replies to my other thread Forfarian, it was before the DNA results which unlocked the link to the Kirkwoods/Macarthurs and helped me get to this point. I've found so much in the last 12 months and this seems the most likely, if so far circumstantial, explanation.

[CaroleW]

Both Hilda & Maud's births were registered as Thomas mmn McArthur.

You definitely need those 2 marriage certs