Author Topic: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.  (Read 530 times)

Online coombs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,461
  • Research the dead....forget the living.
    • View Profile
One ancestor of mine wed her first husband, and he died just months later. She remarried under her previously married name in the same parish but said she was a singlewoman, the witnesses confirmed though that it was the right marriage, plus the name of the groom and the bride's first name. Also the first marriage when she signed her first name "Elizabeth" the signatures matched to her 2nd marriage.

Also her children's baptisms gave her maiden name, in the 1810s, in a rare occurrence where a parish gave mmn's for all couples "Jones, late Smith" for example. And that tied in with Elizabeth's first marriage when she wed under her maiden name.

So you cannot always assume a singleman and singleowman had not been married before. This may explain why you may not find a baptism for the bride, if she was actually a widow and using her previous married name, but said she was a singlewoman when she remarried.

For instance, an example is, a Sarah Bloggs wed James Hamilton in 1800, James died in 1803, and Sarah remarried as Sarah Hamilton in 1805 but said she was a singlwoman. Yet any researcher would assume her birth name was Hamilton and be unaware she had been married before.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Marmalady

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,697
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.
« Reply #1 on: Monday 24 July 23 22:35 BST (UK) »
Yes, I have an ancestor marrying as a "single man" in the 1780s in the same church where his first wife and baby daughter were buried 6 years earlier.
Wainwright - Yorkshire
Whitney - Herefordshire
Watson -  Northamptonshire
Trant - Yorkshire
Helps - all
Needham - Derbyshire
Waterhouse - Derbyshire
Northing - all

Offline crisane

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 6,489
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 25 July 23 02:02 BST (UK) »
Do 'singlewoman" and singleman" tehnically mean that the person concerned is not married at the present time whereas "spinster" and "bachelor" indicate the person has never been married?

Offline Kiltpin

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,119
  • Stand and be Counted
    • View Profile
Re: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 25 July 23 09:13 BST (UK) »
Do 'singlewoman" and singleman" tehnically mean that the person concerned is not married at the present time whereas "spinster" and "bachelor" indicate the person has never been married?
 

I agree. "Singlewoman" and "singleman" indicate whether a person is eligible for marriage or not. Widow and widower indicate that a person was once married. 

Mr Jones dies, leaving Mrs Jones to grieve. She is then known as the widow Jones. It matters not how many times she re-marries, she will always be the widow of Mr Jones. We can't change history. But the moment he dies, she becomes a singlewoman. 

Regards 

Chas


Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia


Offline Jebber

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 5,389
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 25 July 23 10:49 BST (UK) »
Do 'singlewoman" and singleman" tehnically mean that the person concerned is not married at the present time whereas "spinster" and "bachelor" indicate the person has never been married?

You can’t take anything at face value on certificates, people don’t always tell the truth, you always need further verification, preferably  at leat two other items of proof.

I have a man who married twice as a bachelor, the second time while still married to wife number one.

Fictitious fathers named on birth and marriage certificates. Not to mention false  names on the same, the list is endless.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.

Online BumbleB

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,317
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.
« Reply #5 on: Tuesday 25 July 23 11:31 BST (UK) »
Not quite the same but still a lie.  Couple obtain a divorce in 1873.  Ex-wife remarries the same year, having reverted to her maiden name, as a "Divorced woman".  Ex-husband also remarries in 1873 as a "Widower" AND he is a Po9liceman.  ::)
Transcriptions and NBI are merely finding aids.  They are NOT a substitute for original record entries.
Remember - "They'll be found when they want to be found" !!!
If you don't ask the question, you won't get an answer.
He/she who never made a mistake, never made anything.
Archbell - anywhere, any date
Kendall - WRY
Milner - WRY
Appleyard - WRY

Online coombs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,461
  • Research the dead....forget the living.
    • View Profile
Re: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.
« Reply #6 on: Tuesday 25 July 23 19:16 BST (UK) »
Do 'singlewoman" and singleman" tehnically mean that the person concerned is not married at the present time whereas "spinster" and "bachelor" indicate the person has never been married?

You can’t take anything at face value on certificates, people don’t always tell the truth, you always need further verification, preferably  at leat two other items of proof.

I have a man who married twice as a bachelor, the second time while still married to wife number one.

Fictitious fathers named on birth and marriage certificates. Not to mention false  names on the same, the list is endless.

Very much so, always check other sources, as the late Guy Etchells said, at least 3 other items of proof.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Melbell

  • RootsChat Senior
  • ****
  • Posts: 495
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 27 July 23 14:26 BST (UK) »
The use of "Single" instead of "Bachelor" or "Spinster" might be more acceptable these (days in regards to marriage)....but it begs the question a little, because a person who is 'in a relationship' might not be regarded as "Single".   
 
Melbell

Online coombs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,461
  • Research the dead....forget the living.
    • View Profile
Re: Singlewoman, not always a spinster. Ditto for singleman and bachelor.
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 27 July 23 21:26 BST (UK) »
Spinster can also mean the occupation spinner of wool. But in a marriage register it should mean a woman who has never been married, but as said even then she may have still been a widow, or lied about her marital status, or the vicar made a mistake.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain