Author Topic: Help tracing Squadron histories  (Read 1026 times)

Offline adicol

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #9 on: Thursday 27 July 23 09:34 BST (UK) »
Thanks so much, again. After lots of snipping, here goes...
DUR; Stephenson, Wray, Collier, Lowther,Rothery
GLA; Jones, Allen, Holland, Nicholas,George,Lewis
ESS; Davey
W.Yorks; Martin, Hodgson, Tyler,Harrold
LAN; Dodd, Constable, Brinkley
Guernsey; Le Riche

Offline adicol

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #10 on: Thursday 27 July 23 09:44 BST (UK) »
And more...
DUR; Stephenson, Wray, Collier, Lowther,Rothery
GLA; Jones, Allen, Holland, Nicholas,George,Lewis
ESS; Davey
W.Yorks; Martin, Hodgson, Tyler,Harrold
LAN; Dodd, Constable, Brinkley
Guernsey; Le Riche

Offline adicol

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #11 on: Thursday 27 July 23 09:45 BST (UK) »
More still...
DUR; Stephenson, Wray, Collier, Lowther,Rothery
GLA; Jones, Allen, Holland, Nicholas,George,Lewis
ESS; Davey
W.Yorks; Martin, Hodgson, Tyler,Harrold
LAN; Dodd, Constable, Brinkley
Guernsey; Le Riche

Offline adicol

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #12 on: Thursday 27 July 23 09:48 BST (UK) »
Last batch...
DUR; Stephenson, Wray, Collier, Lowther,Rothery
GLA; Jones, Allen, Holland, Nicholas,George,Lewis
ESS; Davey
W.Yorks; Martin, Hodgson, Tyler,Harrold
LAN; Dodd, Constable, Brinkley
Guernsey; Le Riche


Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #13 on: Friday 28 July 23 00:11 BST (UK) »
I’ve had a good read through the images you posted and I’ve jotted down some notes which I hope may explain/clarify things. Please let me know if there’s something specific which I have missed and you would like more information about. I’ve listed my comments under the heading of each image name, so they aren’t necessarily in chronological order.

Service and Casualty Form.  As you are probably aware he joined up when he was 18.  The terminology for the period of his engagement “duration of embodiment” means that he joined as a TA soldier. TA soldiers had to be embodied by Royal Proclamation before they could be called up. On the right side of the page we see the first mention of him joining the Special Force Unit which appears to be categorsied as X (1). As I explained previoulsy the X list was used to desiginate soldiers who were not attached to an established unit, either because they were in transit or sick or on long course of instruction etc. The X(1) list comprised all ranks posted to fill vacancies in authorised War Establishments of a Headquarters or an extra-regimental unit (such as a base depot, school etc). But that is all I have been able to discover about this unit, or ME 33 which may be related to it. Further down the right hand side there’s a listing of his medical categories. A1 means fully physically and mentally fit, and trained for employment at home or overseas. A2 means physically and mentally fit, but requires some further training. The dates given relate to his time in the Royal Artillery, but it’s not clear why he might have been downgraded to A2 at this stage.

Military History Sheet. I’ve already covered much of this page in earlier postings. Just a couple of things to note. The first two entries are signed off by the Infantry Records Office, Edinburgh. This almost certainly means that when he first enlisted and was sent to 63 PTW, he had joined the Infantry, probably earmarked for a Scottish Regiment. However within a couple of months he had been transferred to the Royal Artillery. He was with the Royal Artillery for just under 9 months, firstly with 4 Field Training Regiment RA at Maidstone, Kent then 147 Field Regt RA at Larkhill (details extracted from Service i). The reference to LIAP has already been explained.

Service 1.  This is listed here out of chronological order. It deals with the end of his Army service. He’s with B Company 1 Holding Battalion and posted to the Y list, category 7. The Y list is for soldiers who are no longer effective for one reason or another. In his case this is because he is getting ready to be discharged. He is going out on Class B release. Class A was for all normal demobilsed soldiers and the date they left was determined by age and length of service. Class B was for men specially identified as being necessary to help with civil reconstruction of Britain (see press cutting below). The W(T) reserve referred to “all soldiers whose services are deemed to be more valuable to the country in civil than military employment”. The (T) refers to the fact that he was in the TA. He still retained his liability for recall to active service at any time. However as can be seen from the next entries he was in fact only called back for refresher training in 1951. The indistinct rubber stamp at the bottom of the image is his PULHHEEMs assessment. This is a medical assessment for various factors which is explained in this Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PULHHEEMS The final box shows he was FE which means he was found fit for service “Forward Everywhere”, ie he could be called on to fight in the front line if necessary. This entry is dated 1957 and could in fact mark the end of his service commitment. He would have been aged 32.

Service and Casualty Part II. The crossed out part at the top of the page reads “SOS unit [4 FSU]to MEF [Middle East Force] – Change of command to GREECE wef 31 Mar 1946”. This ties in with your comment about him serving in Greece. However since it is crossed out, I assume that the next entry is what actually happened, namely the process of demobbing him was about to begin, as he had been selected for Class B Release.

Service and Casualty Part III.  The rubber stamp entry is pretty illegible in the photo  but probably says ?? Coy ?? Holding Bn TOS This unit ex overseas”. Presumably this is B Coy, 1 Holding Bn already referred to. He’s then posted to the Ylist category 7 as already explained above, along with the statement about the W(T) Reserve and Class B Release.

Service i.   I’ve already covered most of this earlier. Just to note that 63 PTW appears to have been at Maidstone.

Service ii. He was granted 9 days priv[ilege] leave. Privilege leave is the normal entitlement for a soldier, but is subject to the exigencies of the service, meaning that a soldier can only go on leave if he is not required for some operational commitment. It appears that he was based at Frome at the time, presumably with his battery. He was then effectively fined 5 shillings (it’s referred to as a stoppage from his pay) for damage he caused to a vehicle he was driving. Fairly standard low level disciplinary matter.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #14 on: Friday 28 July 23 00:11 BST (UK) »
Service iii.  Pt II O stands for Part 2 Order followed by the reference number. Part 2 Orders are routine notifications from units to the relevant Record Office of some event affecting the soldier’s career. In ths case it’s the fact he is being compulsorily transferred to the RASC from the RA and becoming a Driver. At the same time the T was added as a prefix to his Army number because he was joining the Transport branch and not the Stores side of the RASC. His rank also changed from Gunner to Driver (both are equivalent to a Private in the Infantry).


Service iv and Service v.  Nothing to add here to what has already been said.

Service vi. The initial reference to ME 33 is odd, as he is only on its strength for a day before being  moved to the X (4) list, then on to the Special Force Unit 3 weeks later. This seems to be some sort of paper exercise. However it is clear that he was on the strength of the Special Force Unit when he was injured. I am assuming this was the incident in which he said he was blown up. The abbreviation (BC) after Wounded means battle casualty, ie as a direct result of enemy action, as opposed a road traffic accident  or other accidental injury.

Service vii. Admitted to hospital and transferred to the X(2) list, that is he was evacuated on medical grounds beyond the medical resources of his unit. I am fairly sure that the next entry shows him being transferred to 7 Con[valescent] Depot. (There’s an article from the BMJ written  in 1942 about the work of the Convalescent Depots here:  https://militaryhealth.bmj.com/content/jramc/78/4/153.full.pdf). From other information I have seen it appears that 7 Con Depot was in Italy. In other words he spent nearly six weeks in hospital follwed by nearly 2 months convalescing. As soon as he got back to his unit he appears to have been charged with losing his greatcoat and had his pay stopped to the value of £1. When he became a battlefield casualty, all his kit and personal belongings, except for the clothes he was wearing and his greatcoat, would have been gathered up and securely stored by his unit’s quartermaster. He kept his greatcoat as this could act as a temporary blanket while he was being passed back through the medical evacuation chain. Clearly somewhere along the way he became parted from his coat and had to pay for the loss. At least he continued to be paid while he was in hospital unlike in earlier times when a soldier was not paid if he wasn’t available to fight!

Service viii.  I was initially assuming that he went the 4 Field Surgical Unit as part of of his recovery from his wounds, possibly for some sort of re-constructive surgery. However it is possible that he didn’t go there as a patient, but in his trade as a driver, as he probably wasn’t fit enough to return to the front line. The reason I think this is that he wasn’t posted there on the X list. However his admittance to 97 British General Hospital on 9/2/46 was for medical reasons as he was not shown as posted there. 97 General Hospital was at Salonika from February to September 1946, so he was obviously in Greece at that time. Why he was admitted is of course unclear. It might have been connected to his earlier injuries or it may have been some illness or disease. We know that by May 1946 he was back in the UK being discharged. Unfortunately, although his medical ducuments will have survived, the MOD do not release these on confidentiality grounds, so you will probably never know the full details of his medical treatment.

Postings. As this sheet is largely a summary of events which are recorded elsewhere, there is little comment I can add. I think the fact that he returned to 4 Fd Surgical Unit after his stay in 97 Gen Hosp, indicates that he was part of the admin staff of the FSU, rather than a patient, but that is just a theory.


Please let me know if there’s anything else I can help you with.

Offline adicol

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #15 on: Monday 07 August 23 08:52 BST (UK) »
Good morning Andy J2022,

Firstly, a huge apology for the delay in responding - we have been away and our roaming fees were extortionate so we had to be very selective about what we used them for.

I honestly cannot thank you enough for all this information and for giving the time it would have taken to go through it! It has helped us immensely to plug those gaps!

Grandad did mention Greece and there is a photo of him somewhere that shows him with his vehicle and he said that was taken in Greece so that has helped to confirm that.

We are going to try do some more digging around to try understand why he may have been downgraded from A1 to A2, and to look into his time in Greece.

Again, thank you so much

Colleen

DUR; Stephenson, Wray, Collier, Lowther,Rothery
GLA; Jones, Allen, Holland, Nicholas,George,Lewis
ESS; Davey
W.Yorks; Martin, Hodgson, Tyler,Harrold
LAN; Dodd, Constable, Brinkley
Guernsey; Le Riche

Offline adicol

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 08 August 23 11:06 BST (UK) »
Hello,

I have been given some further information that supports your theory that Grandad served in Operation Dragoon from some nice people over on a ww2 forum, but also raises more questions!

They have stated that ME33 stands for Military Establishment 33, which was run by Special Operations Executive. How he would have trained or been selected for the SOE is a complete mystery! There are files in the National Archives but due to nature of their roles I am unsure if there will be anything specific about Grandad.

Another memory he did recall (and we dismissed) was that he was given an 'award' for using Morse Code but then 'called home' to tell them and had it removed from him because he had used a telephone. Now, we wonder if this was part of his training and he has breached some type of secrecy rule?!

He was definitely injured in Southern France in 1944. I have been kindly sent an image that proves that, and that he was part of the Special Force which I have attached.

We know he was sent to the 4th F.S.U which I have been told over on the other forum, arrived in Greece in October 1944. Again, there is little to say what he did that the point so I am going to try have a dig around to find more.

Kind regards,

Colleen
DUR; Stephenson, Wray, Collier, Lowther,Rothery
GLA; Jones, Allen, Holland, Nicholas,George,Lewis
ESS; Davey
W.Yorks; Martin, Hodgson, Tyler,Harrold
LAN; Dodd, Constable, Brinkley
Guernsey; Le Riche

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Help tracing Squadron histories
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 08 August 23 13:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Colleen,

I'm glad you've made contact with the lads on WW2Talk. They are very knowledgeable especially on the more esoteric stuff like SOE and the like.

As for the story about your granddad doing Morse training and getting an award then losing it all sounds plausible if perhaps confusing. While he was with SOE he may well have had some training in sending and receiving Morse but I suspect this was intended as a backup skill 'just in case'. Learning to be a competent Morse operator takes a lot of training and also involves lots of additional skills associated with operating a radio set, such as setting up antennas and running generators to power the set. When SOE had wanted Morse operators they usually got them ready trained from the Royal Signals. If he did do some training on how to send messages in Morse code then he would also have been trained in how to encode them and so would have had it drummed into him about the importance of security. When you say that he lost his award because he phoned home, do you mean that he literally made a phonecall back to the family in England, presumably to tell them what he was doing in Algiers or wherever? If this is what happened, I am not surprised that he got into trouble as he would have known this was strictly forbidden. If you mean he was on operations and somehow manged to telephone back to his headquarters (quite how I can't imagine since they were several hundred miles away in North Africa and most of the international phone lines had been cut) then he obviously would have known he needed to use a code for his message just as he would if it had been sent by radio. So I'm a bit puzzled by that story. 

If you get the chance to visit TNA at some stage it could be worth looking through the SOE files - there are dozens of them - to see if you can find out more about the SOE's part in Op Dragoon, or any subsequent operations in Greece.