Barr / Hardie

[Valerie A Newman]

I am looking for details of the parents of Thomas Barr and Joan D Hardie
who married in 1906 646/2/153 Goven and Joan's birth date
 Thank you for your help Val Newman 

[wivenhoe]

Ancestry family tree has image of the marriage certificate -

26 April 1906  at **** Hall, Govan rites of United Free Church

BARR Thomas  bachelor 25y  confectioner  residence 23 White St Govan
Father: Thomas BARR  engineers machinist
Mother: Margaret BARR  ms. LINDSAY

HARDIE  Joan D spinster 23y confectionery saleswoman   residence 18 Elder St Govan
Father: Richard HARDIE   worsted  **** manufacturer
Mother: Agnes Douglas hand loom weaver subsequently married John HUGHES boilermaker

Witnesses  L HUTCHISON     Wm LINDSAY     

(all parties sign)

[wivenhoe]

Ancestry Census Scotland 1901   at 18 Elder St Govan Lanarkshire
DOUGLAS Agnes   head    53y       b. Dunfermline  Fifeshire
DOUGLAS Hannah  dau    18y        b. Dunfermline Fifeshire
plus four boarders

[scotmum]

This birth could work for Joan, if her mother was unmarried at time:

DOUGLAS
JOAN
F
1882
424 / 671
DUNFERMLINE

Perhaps she knew who her father was and wanted to use his surname on her marriage. Have come across similar before.

No obvious Joan D Hardie births.

[Forfarian]

Perhaps she knew who her father was and wanted to use his surname on her marriage.

It may be that the only place her father's name doesn't appear is on her birth certificate.

This is because the name of the father of an illegitimate child can only be included in the birth certificate if the father accompanies the mother when she goes to register the birth, and signs the register there and then.

So it's perfectly possible for the world and his wife to know who the child's father is, and for the child to be known by its father's name all its life, but for his name not to be on the birth certificate - if, for example he was a soldier or sailor or had some other employment that prevented him going to the registrar's within the required 21 days of the birth.

[Forfarian]

Agnes Douglas hand loom weaver subsequently married John HUGHES boilermaker

This is a clear indication that Joan was illegitimate, because if her parents had been married it would have read, "Agnes Hardie M S Douglas hand loom weaver subsequently married John HUGHES boilermaker"

[wivenhoe]

Scotlandspeople
1893     HUGHES  John     marr.   DOUGLAS Agnes    646 / 2 / 162   @   Govan

[scotmum]

Ancestry Census Scotland 1901   at 18 Elder St Govan Lanarkshire
DOUGLAS Agnes   head    53y       b. Dunfermline  Fifeshire
DOUGLAS Hannah  dau    18y        b. Dunfermline Fifeshire
plus four boarders

Agnes is recorded as widowed. Interestingly, Hannah is recorded as 'servant in an ice cream shop'.

Hannah can be found living with her mum and grandad in Dunfermline at 1891. No Joan in household.

Does anyone else wonder if Hannah and Joan might have been one and the same, given Joan's occupation at marriage and her not apparently with mum Agnes in either 1891 or 1901 (albeit I haven't personally come across these two names as commonly inter-changeable)?

There are a few possible John Hughes deaths in Govan between 1893 and 1901.

[Forfarian]

Does anyone else think Hannah and Joan might have been one and the same, given Joan's occupation at marriage and her not apparently with mum Agnes in either 1891 or 1901?

Could be.