Riddle of Angus McGougan death and probate records

[jaamac]

Wondering if someone can shine a light in this issue.
Angus McGougan, born 27 Sept 1878 in Campbeltown, married Marion McKay, b. 1877, in Oct 1908 in Ayr.
I've found two probate records for an Angus McGougan who died in 1939
1940. 1) McGougan, Angus of 1 Argyle Place, Prestwick, died 18 Oct 1939. Confirmation of Marion McKay or McGougan widow. Sealed London 26th July.
1942. 2) McGougan, Angus, of 1 Argyle Place, Prestwick, died 18 October 1939. Confirmation of Christina McKay McKinven and William Shaw solicitor. Sealed Llandudno 21 February . Former Confirmation Sealed London 26th July 1940. (Marion had a sister Christina but I have her marrying a James McKay, not McKinven, so another question there).
The England & Wales National Index of Wills and Administrations lists the probate place as Prestwick, Northumberland - I assume that is incorrect as he lived in Prestwick, Ayrshire for much of his later life.
I cannot find a definitive death record and am puzzled by the two different probates / confirmations and one in Llandudno and the other in London.
Any ideas?

[Forfarian]

There is no such thing in Scots Law as probate, in spite of what sundry web sites (including Ancestry) would have you believe. The corresponding process in Scotland is Confirmation.

A Confirmation in a Scottish court is 'Sealed' in England and Wales if the deceased owned property in England. This is a reciprocal arrangement to avoid the hassle of going through the whole legal process in both countries.

The attached are the images from the original England and Wales Calendar of Probate. (Neither mentions Northumberland; that must be a transcription error. Are you using Ancestry?)

The obvious difference in the names of the persons to whom Confirmation was granted is that the widow isn't mentioned in the second one.

Marion McKay or McGougan died in Prestwick in 1941.

Christina McKay McKinven, mother's maiden surname McKay, was born in Campbeltown in 1907 and died in Prestwick in 2000.

John McKinven married Mary McKay in Campbeltown in 1884.

There's a McKinven household in Campbelltown in the 1911 census index, District 507, ED12, Page 3, consisting of John, 46; Mary, 44; Edward, 24; Neil, 15; James, 13; Mary, 10; Donald, 8; Janet, 6; Christina, 3.

Mary McKinven or Mckay, 48, died in Campbeltown in 1914, mother's maiden surname McMillan. There are several other births of McKays, mother McMillan, in Campbeltown, including Christina in 1874 and Marion in 1877.

So I conclude that the reason why Angus McGougan's estate had to be confirmed twice was that his wife, to whom confirmation was granted in 1940, died before it was fully wound up, and his wife's niece and her solicitor were granted confirmation in 1942. Both confirmations had to be sealed in England and Wales because Angus must have had some property there.

There is no significance in the fact that one confirmation was sealed in London and the other in Llandudno.

I don't understand what you mean when you say that you can't find a definitive death record. Angus McGougan's death was registered in Monkton and Prestwick in 1939.

Check it all out by looking at the original documents at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk - and never trust anything you find on Ancestry unless it's an image of an original document.

[jaamac]

Thanks, Forfarian, for your detailed and helpful reply. Yes, I was aware of the difference between Scotland and England regarding probate / confirmation, but not of the issue regarding ownership of property. That would explain it nicely. I had tried Scotland’s People for a death date for Angus but could not find it. That led me to think that maybe he did in fact die while south of the border, but I couldn’t find any definitive record of that either.
 Your explanation of the different beneficiaries is also credible, again I had not found Marion’s death date.
Thanks again, that’s helped me move on nicely.
John

[eilthireach]

 

"There is no significance in the fact that one confirmation was sealed in London and the other in Llandudno."

Apparently the main Probate registry was evacuated from London to Llandudno during the Second World War, as I was reliably told by a researcher with expertise in historical legal records.

[KGarrad]

The Principal Probate Registry remained in Llandudno until 1946.

See my post of June 2014!
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=690824.0

[Margow]

I had tried Scotland’s People for a death date for Angus but could not find it

Perhaps you missed this in the SP index:

MCGOUGAN
ANGUS
61
M
1939
606 / 83
MONKTON AND PRESTWICK

[jaamac]

Ah, You learn something new every day! Interesting fact about the Probate office, explains a lot. Thanks for info on AMcG death. Thanks to everyone for their input.
Jaamac