Wall & Browne, Stay Makers, Taylors and Habit Makers

[Capetown]

Bristol Mercury: Saturday 31 May 1817

China, Glass, and Staffordshire Ware.

TO BE SOLD BY AUCTION

at No. 39 Castle Street, on Thursday Next, the 5th of June, and following days, til the whole is disposed of.

etc etc.

JOHN WALL, Auctioneers
No. 8 Newfoundland, Street.


---

There are still adverts i.e. Bristol Mirror, 10 March 1821 for Auction by JOHN WALL & Son

-------

Saturday 5 May 1827 - Bristol Mirror

TO BE SOLD BY AUCTION by Mr J.B. WALL

etc etc.

Address; Auctioneer: No. 6 Newfoundland Street, Bristol 

[Capetown]

Bristol Mirror: Saturday 15 January 1842

DEATHS

Jan 9

In her 86th year, (c1756) Esther, relict of Mr John WALL, tea dealer of this city, and mother of J.B. WALL, Auctioneer.

---

? Does the 1841 Census have a 'tick' saying Esther was born in the County - or a N for not, or even I for Irish

[Geordie daughter]

Capetown, your posts help immensely, as they've either confirmed or strengthened evidence gathered by David and Ciderdrinker. It's beginning to look very much as if Esther was a Browne before her marriage, rather than a Collier/Carpenter. I had a look at the 1841 census this morning and, as you said, it has an "N" in the "Born in County" column and then the tick in the other column, which is definitely a bit confusing. Does it indicate that she was born in Scotland or Ireland, or was the chap who went through the census forms afterwards just noting the "N" so he could run his eye down the page and tot up how many people were born elsewhere? I would have expected either an "S," an "I" or an "F" (as was done further up the page) there, rather than a tick, if it was the former case.

I've found a marriage for Esther's daughter Esther (b. March 1795) to one Robert Fletcher in 1813, and most helpfully it lists the witnesses: John Wall (could be either father or brother, but I would guess father, given that Esther was only 18), M.A. Wall (which would be her elder sister Mary Ann, b. Sep 1785), and Sophia Walls [sic] (b. Dec 1798), another sister who is, of course, living with Esther in 1841.

I'd kill for an obituary for John Wall, the tea dealer, because they usually provide a lot of helpful details, but so far I've drawn a blank, though not for lack of looking. David, do you have any idea how much it costs to order wills online from Bristol Archives. The website itself doesn't give any idea of prices, but I suppose that's because it depends on how many pages the copy runs to.
 

[Geordie daughter]

Capetown, looking at other census pages, the ticks do seem to have been added afterwards by however was compiling the statistics. Assuming that Esther Browne was John Browne's sister, she would have been born out of county, probably/possibly in Honiton, Devon, as assorted online family trees of American descendants all give this as John's place of birth. A lot of Honiton records for the time period I need were destroyed in major fires, so this can't be confirmed, sadly.

Ciderdrinker, where did you unearth the marriage details for John Wall and Esther Browne? I've drawn a complete blank on both FindMyPast and FamilySearch, which is frustrating. I'm trying to work out where the Brownes were between their births and when they married.  John Browne married Sarah Balston on 3 September 1777, in Bridport Independent Meeting House, DORSET, so I had postulated that he may have recently completed an apprenticeship in that county, like some other members of his family before him, but that may not be the case if he was with Esther when she married in London earlier that same year. 

[Capetown]

Not sure if this helps in any way.


As you know, it was and is a UK practice to use family names, both Christian names and (Surnames used as middle names etc)  when naming children (as is the case with my own Grandchildren and my forebears for many generations).

In the 18th and 19th centuries, (according to the 'net')

. The first son was name after the father's father
. The second son, after the mother's father
. The third son, after the father
. The first daughter, after the mother's mother
. The second daughter, after the father's mother
. The third daughter, after the mother
. The fourth daughter, after the mother's eldest sister

[Geordie daughter]

Thanks, Capetown. That's part of the assumption that I was working on with John and Esther, as he subsequently gave a daughter of his that name. The Walls attended Chapel Green Meeting House like the Brownes, which is why I am pretty sure that John Browne Wall was named for his father's business partner. The Brownes weren't terribly imaginative name-wise on the whole, sticking with John, William, Samuel, Hannah, Mary, Sarah, etc, until quite late on. Part of the problem also, is that I have no idea who John's father William married, or when - he pitches up in Bath as a peruke maker/hair dresser in the early 1760s and there is never a mention of a wife - and up until now, John appeared to be the only known child. Non-con records, generally, are a bit of a nightmare to track down, and not helped by the Honiton fire in particular, as all the records that might have been able to confirm other siblings appear to have been destroyed.