Author Topic: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...  (Read 415 times)

Offline cockney rebel

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Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« on: Saturday 05 August 23 11:36 BST (UK) »
According to the Death Certificate my ancestor , Francis Hewitt , died on 28 Sept 1865
at St George's Hospital
As the death was registered in Westminster I take this to be the hospital that used to stand at Hyde Park Corner.
St George's Hospital has digitalised its Post Mortem records for this period, but his is not amongst them.
He was 46 occ Grave Digger and died from blood poisoning after breaking both legs after falling out of a tree he was lopping on Putney Heath                     
There was an Inquest held on 2 Oct 1865 by   Charles St Clare Bedford, Coroner for Westminster.
The death was registered on the 9th Oct 1865.
BUT he was buried on the 4th Oct 1865.
I have always understood that there could be no burial (in Wimbledon)   without a certificate issued.       
What exactly is the diff ence between a Post Mortem and an Inquest? I am well convinced that this is my man, but there is absolutely no evidence on the certificate! On the censuses he's just a labourer  .
Any ideas, other than gut feeling, to find out  more?
Thanks
Rebel

Offline Pheno

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Re: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 05 August 23 11:50 BST (UK) »
Now, at least you can be buried prior to Inquest as it has just happened to my brother.  His death was Nov 2022 and the inquest in June 2023 - a long time to wait for burial.  The Coroner issues an interim death certificate, enough to enable burial and seek probate - a final death certificate is issued following the inquest.  An inquest examines the circumstances surrounding the death to obtain the circumstances and whether natural, accidental etc.

A post mortem is a medical examination to determine the cause of death.

Pheno
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Offline jim1

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Re: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 05 August 23 11:52 BST (UK) »
An inquest is basically a Coroner's Court which
establishes the cause of death.
A Post Mortem is conducted when the cause of death is not known
& the body is surgically examined to establish cause.
Crossed posts with Pheno.
Warks:Ashford;Cadby;Clarke;Clifford;Cooke Copage;Easthope;
Edmonds;Felton;Colledge;Lutwyche;Mander(s);May;Poole;Withers.
Staffs.Edmonds;Addison;Duffield;Webb;Fisher;Archer
Salop:Easthope,Eddowes,Hoorde,Oteley,Vernon,Talbot,De Neville.
Notts.Clarke;Redfearne;Treece.
Som.May;Perriman;Cox
India Kane;Felton;Cadby
London.Haysom.
Lancs.Gay.
Worcs.Coley;Mander;Sawyer.
Kings of Wessex & Scotland
Census information is Crown copyright,from
www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 05 August 23 12:13 BST (UK) »
Registration has never been an absolute requirement before a burial/cremation, and still isn't today.


Offline cockney rebel

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Re: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 05 August 23 15:07 BST (UK) »
Well thankyou all for that. I can then safely assume he is my man.
Bu I was convinced that registration was needed and thought i had  read as much so here on the site!
Happy to be corrected
and thankyou for the help
Rebel

Offline LizzieL

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Re: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 06 August 23 14:14 BST (UK) »
What is the green form that the registrar gives you when you register a death for? I understood that the undertaker required that form before they could proceed with the burial or cremation.
Berks / Oxon: Eltham, Annetts, Wiltshire (surname not county), Hawkins, Pembroke, Partridge
Dorset / Hants: Derham, Stride, Purkiss, Sibley
Yorkshire: Pottage, Carr, Blackburn, Depledge
Sussex: Goodyer, Christopher, Trevatt
Lanark: Scott (soldier went to Jersey CI)
Jersey: Fowler, Huelin, Scott

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 06 August 23 15:26 BST (UK) »
I believe that the coroner registers the death after an inquest. This certainly happened in my g/grandfathers case after he was hit by a train while crossing the station by crossing the line. Presumably the coroners verdict was sufficient to permit burial.
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Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« Reply #7 on: Sunday 06 August 23 15:29 BST (UK) »
What is the green form that the registrar gives you when you register a death for? I understood that the undertaker required that form before they could proceed with the burial or cremation.

The green form ( Form 9) is the authority for the burial/cremation, but it can be issued before registration in some circumstances.

It also has a tear off slip which is completed by the cemetery or crematorium after the funeral and gets returned to the registrar.

Online AntonyMMM

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Re: Post Mortem or Inquest ? Burial without Certificate ? Ideas please...
« Reply #8 on: Monday 07 August 23 11:38 BST (UK) »
I believe that the coroner registers the death after an inquest. This certainly happened in my g/grandfathers case after he was hit by a train while crossing the station by crossing the line. Presumably the coroners verdict was sufficient to permit burial.

After the inquest is completed, the coroner sends the details to the registrar who registers the death (showing the coroner as the informant). The body can be released for a funeral long before that.