Author Topic: Trying to find Thomas Silvester coming to Australia  (Read 1486 times)

Offline janjim

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Re: Trying to find Thomas Silvester coming to Australia
« Reply #54 on: Wednesday 13 December 23 05:17 GMT (UK) »
Wow Ben66son, thank you so much for this, and to find you have DNA match with the family.

Can you just clarify the first three lines regarding John Hill please.  Bit confused about Mary Fitzpatrick, where does she fit in?

Jan

Hi 
Subject William Batson and Elizabeth Silvester.

Elizabeth Silvester was born Elizabeth Hill , daughter of John Hill, convict per Ann and Mary Neale , a widow of Peter McCann and James Neale (both convicts). Mary Fitzpatrick (aka Fitzgerald) arrived per Atlas 1801. 
Elizabeth was born  25 August 1815   baptised  24 December 1815 at St Mathew’s, Windsor, NSW
She had an older sister Eleanor born March of 1812.
John Hill and Mary Neale married 24 May 1813 ar St Mathew’s Windsor.

Elizabeth first married Antonio Silvester (aka Da Silva, Silva, Sylvester) came free, as ship crew - origin Portugal
They married in 1833 at Sutton Frost. 
NSW Bdm 340/1833 V183340
Their only child Mary Ann Silvester was born in 30 October 1840.  Baptism on 19 December 1841 ( Goulburn district)
NSW BDM Silvester Mary A. 1651/1840 v18411651 25A. Antony. Elizabeth

In 1842 Elizabeth left Antonio, presumely taking her daughter with her.
Antonio placed an ad stating her would not be responsible for his wife’s debts and he would prosecute anyone harbouring her.
Australasian Chronicle, Sydney NSW 1839-1843) Tue 1 Feb 1842 page 3

Elizabeth married William Batson in 15 August 1843.
NSW BdM  390/1843 V1843390 27C.  Batson William. Silvester Elizabeth

Convict permission to marry dated 17 Jul 1843

Hope this information provides some clarity
I am a DNA match with Elizabeth and William’s children descendants.
I descended from the first child born to Mary and Peter McCann in 1803.

Regards  ben66son
New, Thorn, Bird, Ruffey, Bosley, Belcher- Newbury Berkshire
Haynes/Haines - Much Birch Herefordshire, Monmouth Wales
Kearn/Watkins- Llanllwchaiarn/Newtown, Wales, Tyberton, Herefordshire
Gwilliam - Monmouth Wales, Herefordshire
Collier, Jackson - Salford, Manchester Lancashire
Saunders - Middlesex, Devon
Benson - Edinburgh, Scotland
Callander - Falkirk, Scotland
Ambrose - Liverpool, Manchester Lancashire, Canada
Timms, Elliman - Oxfordshire, Warwickshire
Ellison - Manchester/Portsmouth Hampshir

Offline Ben66son

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Re: Trying to find Thomas Silvester coming to Australia
« Reply #55 on: Thursday 14 December 23 23:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi
Providing information for clarity on who Mary was, John Hill and Mary, and their daughter Elizabeth Hill b 1815 - aka Elizabeth Silvester and Elizabeth Batson


This may be a little long and with some complications but this is the story as I know it.
Now sending two parts :)

Mary was a young Irish lass who was transported on the Atlas (1) dep. Cork 29 Nov 1801, arr. 7 Jul 1802 in Colony of New South Wales at age 16.

The indent list supplied by the Atlas' Master records her name as Mary Fitzpatrick and gives her age as 16 years, placing her birth around 1786.
The 1828 Muster records her age as 44 years old, giving a birth year of around 1784.
Her Certificate of Freedom states she was a native of Clonmel, Waterford, Ireland.

I usually refer to my  4th great grandmother as Mary Fitzpatrick (aka Fitzgerald) because all her documents linked to her colonial government life events  such as the
 Ship Indent,
Ticket of Leave and
Certificate of Freedom are in the name of Mary Fitzpatrick -
such records could not be retrieved if one used the name Mary Fitzgerald  per Atlas 1801.

Was Mary a Fitzpatrick or a Fitzgerald we don’t know 100%.  Mary used the surname Fitzgerald once upon the shores of Botany Bay.
A report of her trial ( Freemans Journal, Thursday, 9 April 1801 p2- Waterford, April 3)
at Waterford Assize Spring 1801 session names her as Mary Fitzgerald, along with several others  conjectured that they worked together in the thefts at Cappoquin fair.  Only three of those before the Court were given transportation across the sea - our Mary (16 yrs) a Mary Denne (Dean) (24 yrs) and Eleanore Fitzgerald (31 yrs).  How these women were related is undetermined.  The two Mary’s were likely cousins.
Whether Elen was a mother or a sister or a cousin, is undetermined.  She birthed no known children in the Colony.

Mary’s  first husband  -
Peter McCann  (alias McCanna, McKenna)  - born about 1769 in Ireland.
Tried in Monaghan for robbery in 1798.   
Transport on Minerva , departed Cork August 1799, arrived  January 1800,  to the colony for 7 years.

Peter McCann  married  Mary Fitzgerald on 9 Jan 1804 at St John’s, Paramatta, New South Wales.

He died 21 Oct 1806 at about age 37 in Windsor, New South Wales, Australia - death by drowning in a flood,
(Sydney Gazette Sun 26 Oct 1806 p. 1)
leaving behind a wife, and two children, Nicholas b1803 and Catherine b1805.
Before Peter’s untimely death he rented acres at Cornwallis Farm.

A third child was born to Mary between 1807 and 1809, and was named James.  No baptism has been found for this child.  Whether he was a child of Peter McCann or by Mary’s second husband James Neale is question remaining unanswered.
This child, James, was recorded On Stores in Jun 1809 under the name of McCann along with Nicholas and Catherine. However, James was recorded in other Census / Musters and in marriage as James Neale or James O’Neil/Neil.

Her second husband -
James Neale ( aka Neil) convicted at Trim, County Meath, Ireland for perjury, transported for 7 years.
"James Neale for perjury, being a witness against Defenders, in contradicting his examinations, to be transported for seven years."
(Freemans Journal 1763-1924, Tuesday, July 30, 1793; Page: 2 TRIM ASSIZES)
transported on Marquis Cornwallis, departure: 9th August, 1795   Arrival:  11th February, 1796

The names of six men tried at Meath in 1793 and transported on Marquis Cornwallis had been left off the Indent of the ship so that there was no official record of them.
August 1806 Muster - James Neale  - Rents 23 acres, Cornwallis Farm .  Cultivated: 17 acres

On 2 November 1807 James married Mary Fitzgerald at St John's Parramatta. His name was recorded as "NEILL". James signed his name, Mary made her
mark.
James Neale born between 1807 and 1809- no birth/baptism located to date.
Bridget Neale born in 1810 baptised 1815
Bridget Neale, daughter of James Neale, Mary; Abode: Windsor Born 17 Jan 1810 Windsor
Baptised 24 Dec 1815  by Rev Robert Cartwright, Registered at St Matthew's Church of England Windsor.

February 1810: Petition
 James had made a "Supplication to Colonel Patterson for a portion of land for his Children which was granted"
An 80 acre land grant was made to James Neal at Richmond hill, Land Grants 1810-1821 (NRS 13836 [7/447] Reg 2, p.27, Reel 2561).

Sudden death
James Neale's death is recorded in the Registers of St .Phillip's Church of England, Sydney
JAMES NEALE  Aged 40;  Buried 25 Feb 1811
He perished in a fire at Richmond Hill.

Offline Ben66son

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Re: Trying to find Thomas Silvester coming to Australia
« Reply #56 on: Thursday 14 December 23 23:43 GMT (UK) »
Part 2 on who was John Hill and his marriage to Mary

Third husband
Mary married again in 1813 - Mary NEILL to John HILL

John Hill was tried at Chelmsford Assizes
– for stealing a brown mare the property of Mr Wingfield of Great Burstead
He received a sentence of death, but was afterwards reprieved  -  sentenced to life in the Colony of New South Wales.
Convicted: Aug 1809 Chelmsford -  Life;
Arrived per Ann 1810 on 27 February 1810
Native Place: Essex; Year of Birth: 1782; 
Age: 31; Trade or Calling: Labourer;
Reference: SRNSW 4/4427; Reel 601.

Ticket of Leave no 623 granted 1813

1814 Muster - Mustered at Windsor, Mary Fitzgerald, Wife to John Hill; Victualling: Off Stores, Children: 2 children on stores, 3 children off stores.

There are five children recorded for the victualling records in the October 1814,

1. Nicholas McCann, born on 28th November 1803, aged nearly 11 yrs in Oct 1814 Muster
2. Catherine McCann, was born in 1805. Aged 9  yrs in Oct 1814 Muster
3. James (McCann or Neale) - no birth/baptism found to date - born between 1807 and 1809
4. Bridget NEALE born 17 January 1810. Aged 4&1/2 years at Oct 1814 Muster
5. Eleanor Hill born March 1811. Aged 3 & ½ years at Oct 1814 Muster
A further child  added to the family not on the victualling records in the October 1814 was Elizabeth Hill, as she was not born until 25 August 1815.

Census/ Musters and Population Records

1816 – February 1819  ‘Ann’ 1810 tried at Chelmsford, August 1809; Ticket of Leave  Landholder Richmond

1818 Ticket of Leave Landholder  - in the colony

1820 Ticket of Leave - in the colony

Sept 1822  - John Hill; Life; Arrived per Anne, Status: TL; Occupation/Residence: Landholder, Windsor 

Sept 1825 - Mary Fitzgerald; 7 years; Arrived per Atlas 1802, Status: FS (Free by Servitude); Occupation/Residence, Evan; Wife of John Hill

Sept 1825 - John Hill; Life; Arrived per Ann 1810, Status: TL; Occupation/Residence: Landholder, Bringelly.

Some McCann family researchers suggest John Hill died In 1827 , but he was  given as sponsor for his step-granddaughter, Ellen Hughes, who was baptised at St Mary’s RC church, Sydney on 12 Jan 1829 .  The record states Ellen was 2 weeks old, the daughter of John Hughes and Bridget O’Niel.
Therefore, John Hill’s death date of 1827 should be questioned.

Further,  1833 sees John Hill is still alive.
Entrance and Description Book Sydney 1831-1847
Text: John Hill, Ann 1808, born 1783, 5 feet 5 and a half inches tall, stout, fair complexion and grey eyes

Text: Hill John, Ann, 1809, free, native of Essex, Catholic, labourer
admitted 6 Sep 1833 Police Office, hard labour 1 month, farm labour, discharged 6 Oct 1833.
The reason for his sentence of hard labour is unknown.
Had he lost his tenure of the land at Bringelly. 
Death - yes.  Records point to John Hill dying after 6 October 1833. 
Mary Fitpatrick(Fitzgerald) McCann Neale Hill also goes missing on records from 1832/3.  Death- yes.
Some researcher suggest 1840, others 1870 - not proven.

Offline janjim

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Re: Trying to find Thomas Silvester coming to Australia
« Reply #57 on: Saturday 16 December 23 21:07 GMT (UK) »
Thank you so much, this is absolutely fantastic to get all of this information.
Jan
New, Thorn, Bird, Ruffey, Bosley, Belcher- Newbury Berkshire
Haynes/Haines - Much Birch Herefordshire, Monmouth Wales
Kearn/Watkins- Llanllwchaiarn/Newtown, Wales, Tyberton, Herefordshire
Gwilliam - Monmouth Wales, Herefordshire
Collier, Jackson - Salford, Manchester Lancashire
Saunders - Middlesex, Devon
Benson - Edinburgh, Scotland
Callander - Falkirk, Scotland
Ambrose - Liverpool, Manchester Lancashire, Canada
Timms, Elliman - Oxfordshire, Warwickshire
Ellison - Manchester/Portsmouth Hampshir


Offline janjim

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Re: Trying to find Thomas Silvester coming to Australia
« Reply #58 on: Saturday 16 December 23 21:11 GMT (UK) »
Hi again,
We have much information on the Batson family, if you wish to know more.   You may already have this.

Jan

Thank you so much, this is absolutely fantastic to get all of this information.
Jan
New, Thorn, Bird, Ruffey, Bosley, Belcher- Newbury Berkshire
Haynes/Haines - Much Birch Herefordshire, Monmouth Wales
Kearn/Watkins- Llanllwchaiarn/Newtown, Wales, Tyberton, Herefordshire
Gwilliam - Monmouth Wales, Herefordshire
Collier, Jackson - Salford, Manchester Lancashire
Saunders - Middlesex, Devon
Benson - Edinburgh, Scotland
Callander - Falkirk, Scotland
Ambrose - Liverpool, Manchester Lancashire, Canada
Timms, Elliman - Oxfordshire, Warwickshire
Ellison - Manchester/Portsmouth Hampshir