Author Topic: Still searching for maternal grandad  (Read 419 times)

Offline George.

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Still searching for maternal grandad
« on: Thursday 10 August 23 15:38 BST (UK) »
I am having trouble understanding DNA and would appreciate some help please.

My half cousin, we share a grandmother, shows as a match on Ancestry, as expected. Our match is 518cM across 22 segments, longest segment being 63cM. Ancestry gives us an 84% chance of being first cousins.

I have another Ancestry match of 244cM across 10 segments, longest segment being 45cM, and showing a 67% chance of being half first cousin once removed. Looking at that person's family tree they would appear to be the next generation down from me.

I have been trying, without success, to get the parent of this match (a possible half cousin) to take a DNA test which I am sure would help me in finding my maternal grandfather, long since dead. Am I correct in saying that each subsequent generation reduces by approximately half the match numbers? If so, the parent of my match would show approximately 488cM across 20 segments, very close to my known half cousin.

Would that be sufficient to confirm that the possible first cousin and I share a grandfather?

I hope that I've explained this adequately and hope that someone is able to help.

Thanks
George

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Still searching for maternal grandad
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 10 August 23 22:55 BST (UK) »
You are correct DNA reduces roughly by a half, there is a but, in that the process is random and there can be large variations in the cM shared by a DNA Cousin.

The next step could be for all concerned to upload their DNA data to Gedmatch and then the analytical tools can to run to compare where the shared DNA is located in the genome of each match, it looks at shared Segments of DNA.

The Triangulation tool will compare the DNA of the three of you, and will help to indicate which is your MRCA, a month subscription is available but do try the free tools first to get used to the website.

There are tutorial videos on Gedmatch

Offline phil57

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Re: Still searching for maternal grandad
« Reply #2 on: Friday 11 August 23 10:28 BST (UK) »
I have been trying, without success, to get the parent of this match (a possible half cousin) to take a DNA test which I am sure would help me in finding my maternal grandfather, long since dead. Am I correct in saying that each subsequent generation reduces by approximately half the match numbers? If so, the parent of my match would show approximately 488cM across 20 segments, very close to my known half cousin.

Would that be sufficient to confirm that the possible first cousin and I share a grandfather?

DNA won't confirm that you share a grandfather. It may confirm that relationship as being within the range of possibilities, along with several other relationships. Even if the probability of a particular relationship is the most likely, that doesn't mean it necessarily applies to your relationship, because if other relationships weren't possible, their probabilities just wouldn't exist.

IMO you would be better off researching the ancestors of both matches, widening their ancestral lines as much as you can by also researching siblings of direct ancestors, their marriages and children, until you find a possible commonality.

Triangulation may help, but again IME, trying to get enough involved parties interested enough to DNA test for that purpose can be difficult if not impossible much of the time, even if you offer to pay for the tests. They are either just not as interested or involved as you might be, or more so with older generations, suspicious of the whole testing scenario and allowing someone that they don't know access to their results.

Triangulation will also only enhance probabilities. Proof may only be possible through validated paper based research, corroborated by DNA results. Even then, proof may not be possible, and you may have to settle for a most likely explanation derived from the evidence that you have been able to obtain.

One of my higher DNA matches is to a man who has not responded to any contact from me at all, and has a tree on Ancestry consisting of nine people. I spent well over a year researching his ancestry, including buying several birth and marriage certificates looking for clues. The closest I have managed to get to any correlation between us is that his GGM had a child (his GM) out of wedlock by an unknown man, and that one of my GG Uncles had two children out of wedlock with his GGM's sister whilst they were all living in the same street. My GG Uncle also had the same occupation as the apparently fictitious father named on my match's GM's birth certificate.

Proof that we are related through my GG Uncle? No, but on the balance of the evidence available, it seems to be the most likely explanation. It could have been another of my GG Uncles, there were several in the area at the time, but opportunity and the occupation on the birth certificate lead me to that specific GG Uncle as the likely candidate.

Our match length is quite high for that scenario, but the research has not uncovered evidence for any closer relationship, and no likelihood of our families paths crossing a second and more recent time, other than by completely random chance and no opportunity amongst my closer ancestors, apart from perhaps one great uncle who seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth from the age of 14.

In the end though, I doubt that any cooperation from my DNA match would have resolved that any better, except perhaps to have saved my quite a bit of time and expense along the way.

Have you checked the shared matches between you and your matches, if there are any? Researching their lines and connections could also lead to commonalities that may point in the direction of, and further corroborate a possible identity for you GF.

It's all a lot of hard work, time and effort unfortunately. There are no easy short cuts, but of course if you do eventually find an answer, it makes everything worthwhile.
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Offline George.

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Re: Still searching for maternal grandad
« Reply #3 on: Friday 11 August 23 14:32 BST (UK) »
Hello Biggles and Phil,

Thank you for your replies and explanations. It seems I have a lot more work to do but before that
I will try again to persuade my Ancestry contact's mother to take a DNA test and see where that leads me.

Thanks again,
George


Offline Biggles50

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Re: Still searching for maternal grandad
« Reply #4 on: Friday 11 August 23 16:56 BST (UK) »
As Phil has explained and you have experienced getting relations to have their DNA tested is not as simple as it sounds.

I have 12 first Cousins that I know plus another 6 that I am aware of, but that is another tale.

Of those 12, none have come forward and actually taken a DNA test.

You will probably never be totally sure of a specific relationship just as you can have all the paperwork that there is to substantiate a relationship but that is not proof, it is just as good as it gets.

It is a combination of both paperwork and DNA that can increase the probabilities but given your circumstances you have very little chance of achieving this as the paperwork is not likely to be there and even if there were some could it be taken as 100% correct?

If you have not already looked then it is worth a try to see if there is any Court Records of the Mother making a claim against the Father.

I looked for my Great Great Grandmother have done just that but even visiting the local archives no Court record survives.  Roll on the years and DNA has given me the probable Father, but that is all, a probable.   100+ DNA match’s shared with the probable Father help to substantiate the hypothesis that he is the Father but there is not nor is there likely to be any paper trail.