Author Topic: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!  (Read 363 times)

Offline EBrand

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The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« on: Thursday 31 August 23 14:14 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone, this may be a long post. (EDIT: I have to post in two parts as it is too long!)
I have an ancestor - Hannah Andrew - who has caused me a lot of grief in trying to understand what was going on in her life. I thought maybe an outside perspective may help, because I just can't quite figure it out. Bear with me, it is a little bit long...
I have compiled here the facts of her life in chronological order, and finished off with some questions I need help answering.

Thank you in advance for reading.

Hannah ANDERSON was baptised on the 11 Mar 1810 to Henry ANDERSON and Harriet ANDERSON in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire.
26 Feb 1832- Hannah ANDREW baptises her illegitimate son John ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire.
12 October 1834- Hannah ANDREW baptises her illegitimate son Henry ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire.
25 December 1836- Hannah ANDREW baptises her illegitimate son Joseph ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire.
6 September 1838- Hannah ANDREW gives birth to a son named Robinson ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire. She has registered her own father’s name and occupation (Henry Andrew – miner) as Robinson’s biological father. This does not make sense. There is no known baptism for Robinson ANDREW.

1 Month Later

29th of October 1838 – Hannah ANDERSON (labourer) marries Thomas FLEMING (twine spinner) in Rothwell, Yorkshire. Both of their residences are put as Lofthouse. Hannah already had 4 illegitimate children upon her marriage to Thomas. Hannah was also 6 years older than Thomas.
8th July 1839- Hannah ANDREW’s son Robinson ANDREW dies at 9 months old from measles in Carr Gate. The death was witnessed by Hannah’s mother, Harriet ANDREW. His burial date is put as 24th of June, which is inconsistent with the death certificate.
7th May 1840- Hannah FLEMING nee ANDREW gives birth to a daughter Elizabeth FLEMING in Carr Gate. Thomas FLEMING is named as the father. Elizabeth is not baptised.

1841 Census – Ann FLEMING is living in a house in Carr Gate where she works as a labourer. She is 33 years old. Her daughter Elizabeth FLEMING is 1, and her sons John ANDREW, Henry ANDREW and Joseph ANDREW are 9, 6 and 4 respectively.
Thomas FLEMING is not residing with them. He is residing at Lee Moor Gate with his parents Richard FLEMING (70) and Martha FLEMING (70). His sister Mary Ann is 40, sister Jane is 25, Thomas is 20 and a twine spinner, there is a 4-month-old Richard FLEMING.

Sep 1842- Hannah FLEMING nee ANDREW gives birth to a daughter named Emma FLEMING in Carr Gate. Thomas FLEMING is named as the father. Emma is not baptised.
13 November 1846- Hannah FLEMING gives birth to William FLEMING in Carr Gate, Yorkshire. Thomas FLEMING is named as the father.
January 17 1847- Hannah FLEMING baptises her son William FLEMING in Carr Gate, Yorkshire. She has no occupation and no father is listed. 
16 June 1850- Ann ANDERSON baptises her two daughters Emma and Elizabeth under her surname in Carr Gate, Yorkshire. No father is listed for either girls.
2 Aug 1850- Hannah FLEMING gives birth to a son named Amos FLEMING in Carr Gate, Yorkshire. Thomas FLEMING is named as the father.  There is no known baptism for Amos FLEMING.
Dec 1850- Hannah FLEMING buries her son Amos FLEMING (19 weeks old) in Carr Gate, Yorkshire.

1851 Census- Hannah FLEMING is 42 and a coal pit labourer in Carr Gate. She has put herself down as married. Her children are John ANDERSON (19, coal miner), Henry ANDERSON (16, coal miner), Joseph ANDERSON (14, coal miner harrier), Elizabeth ANDERSON (10), Emma FLEMING (7) and William FLEMING (3). Again, Thomas is not living with them. He is living with his widowed mother in Cockpithouses, Stanley. He is 34 and an agricultural labourer.

May 26 1856- John ANDERSON, Hannah’s eldest, marries Mary BASTON in Wakefield. His father’s name on the marriage cert is W---------, occupation not listed. They go on to have a son named Robinson, a daughter named Hannah and a daughter Elizabeth. Mary dies in 1867 and John remarries to Hannah COOPER in 1868. There is no father’s name listed on his second marriage certificate.
Sep 14 1856- Henry ANDERSON, Hannah’s second eldest, marries Mary ABSON in Wakefield. His father’s name on the marriage cert is David A-------- (crossed out), occupation not listed. Mary dies and Henry remarries to Mary Ann Chapman WINTER on 23 Mar 1863. There is no father’s name listed on his second marriage certificate. With his second wife he had a son named  Walter.
25 Dec 1857- Joseph ANDERSON, Hannah’s third eldest, marries Sarah SNOWDEN in Stanley. His father’s name and occupation is blank on his marriage certificate. With Sarah he had six children; Ezra, Walter, Frederick, Clara, Ruth, Martha. His wife Sarah died in 1867. Joseph remarried on March 31 1868 to Alice CHARLESWORTH. On this second marriage certificate, he puts his father’s name as William ANDERSON, miner.
March 1858- Elizabeth FLEMING, Hannah’s fifth child, dies aged 18 in Stanley Lane End. She is buried in Stanley on March 11.
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Offline EBrand

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Re: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 31 August 23 14:16 BST (UK) »
1861 census – Anna HENDERSON is living in Stanley Lane End, aged 52, widowed. She has her two surviving unmarried children residing with her, Emma HENDERSON (18, ---  at a worsted mill) and William HENDERSON (13, works at a coal pit).
Thomas FLEMING is not deceased, he is still living with his widowed mother at Lee Moor Gate. He is now 43 and still a twine spinner. His marital status says “married”.

1871 census- Hannah ANDERSON is living in Stanley Lane End, aged 59, widowed. With her are two children, Emma ANDERSON (26) and William ANDERSON (22, coal miner), also a grandson Walter ANDERSON (5, most likely Henry’s son).
Thomas FLEMING is not deceased, but I have not been able to find him in the 1871 census.

19 Feb 1872- William FLEMING, Hannah’s seventh child, marries Eliza Ann Holmes in Wakefield. His father’s name is given as Thomas FLEMING and occupation is miner. William dies in January of 1877, aged 30. The couple had two children, Emily and Alfred.

22 Dec 1872- Emma FLEMING, Hannah’s sixth child, marries George WATSON in Stanley. Her father’s name and occupation is left blank. Emma dies in June 1889 aged 44, without any children.

1881 census- Hannah ANDERSON is living in Stanley, aged 71, widowed. She is living by herself.
Thomas FLEMING is still not deceased, he is a pauper in the Wakefield Union Workhouse. He is 65 years old, a twine spinner, and his marital status is still married.

2nd of January 1885- Hannah FLEMING, 73 years old and the housekeeper of Stanley dies at the Union Workhouse in Stanley.

Mar 1886- Thomas FLEMING dies in Wakefield, Yorkshire aged 70, most likely at the Union Workhouse.

Questions:
1.   Hannah already had 4 illegitimate children before marrying Thomas, who was six years younger than her. She gave birth to Robinson one month before marrying Thomas. How usual would it be for a man to marry a woman with four illegitimate children in that day and age?

2.   Their marriage provided another four children, but from the vital records it seemed to be loveless. He was named on each of the birth certificates, but when Elizabeth, Emma and William were baptised, only Hannah was listed on the baptismal registers. Also, he wasn’t present with them in any of the censuses, and by 1861 Hannah/Anna reverts back to a variation of her maiden name and lists herself as widowed, even though her husband is still alive. Can anyone make sense of this situation?

3.   Why would Hannah put her own father’s name as the father for her illegitimate son Robinson?

4.   Hannah’s three surviving illegitimate children all put different names for their father on their marriage certificates. John put W----, Henry put David A---- and Joseph put William Anderson. Are they just making these names up?

5.   Emma Fleming supposedly grew up with her father being alive, why would she not put his name on her marriage certificate, but her brother William would?

6.   Robinson Andrew’s date of death is written as 8th of July 1839, but his burial record shows he was buried on the 28th of June 1839. I’m not sure if this was just an error, or maybe I have the wrong person?

If you have gotten this far, thank you!
Emmy :)
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Offline lancsann

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Re: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 31 August 23 15:23 BST (UK) »
That burial date does not make sense with the death registration quarter either. Robinson's birth & death are both registered in September quarter ie July/Aug/Sept. There are no other Robinson Andrew births or deaths in the Wakefield district

Online rosie99

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Re: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 31 August 23 15:29 BST (UK) »

6.   Robinson Andrew’s date of death is written as 8th of July 1839, but his burial record shows he was buried on the 28th of June 1839. I’m not sure if this was just an error, or maybe I have the wrong person?



Online burial register image gives date as June 24th 1839.  The burial immediately before is 21st June the next one is 23rd July - I suspect the error could be in the burial register
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Offline lancsann

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Re: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 31 August 23 17:10 BST (UK) »
very odd. If i have got this right
Fleming children with Hannah in 1851 - all with mmn Andrew
Elizabeth 1840
Hannah 1842
William 1846
Amos 1850

Fleming children with Thomas in 1851 - all registered as mmn (NONE) on Yorksbmd
Richard age age 34 ag lab (Twine spinner in 1861)
Richard 1841 - son of sister Jane
Mary 1944 - daughter of Jane
Thomas 1844 - son of Jane
Sarah 1850 - daughter of Jane

Offline EBrand

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Re: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« Reply #5 on: Friday 01 September 23 02:25 BST (UK) »
Rosie99 and lancsann,
I think you could be right. I think there has been a clerical error in the burial record, making it likely he was buried early July. Usually there was only a few days between death and burial, right? Unless there was an inquest, which isn’t the case for Robinson.

Lancsann,
Yes it’s very odd, Thomas Fleming is named as father on all of the birth certs, but when it comes to the baptisms, the children are only baptised under Hannah Fleming (no father listed) or Hannah/Ann Anderson (no father listed). I really don’t know what the situation is with this family!
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Offline EBrand

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Re: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« Reply #6 on: Friday 01 September 23 02:27 BST (UK) »
Lancsann,

I did originally look at the children living with Thomas on the census to see if he had any extra children but came to the same conclusion as you, that they were Jane’s illegitimate children.
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Offline Jomot

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Re: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« Reply #7 on: Friday 01 September 23 02:56 BST (UK) »
Yes it’s very odd, Thomas Fleming is named as father on all of the birth certs, but when it comes to the baptisms, the children are only baptised under Hannah Fleming (no father listed) or Hannah/Ann Anderson (no father listed). I really don’t know what the situation is with this family!
As you also say that Thomas was not present with the family on the census, I suspect that he wasn't the father of the children, except perhaps Elizabeth. 

I have a similar situation in my family where the husband is named as father on the birth certificates only, but in my case I'm certain he wasn't the father as he'd emigrated to America and was living with another woman.  Later death notices also confirm which children were and weren't his.   

The reason he's named on the certificates seems to be that there was (and possibly still is) a presumption of paternity, ie if a man was married to the child's mother at any time between conception and birth then he was presumed to be the father unless specifically stated otherwise. I suspect that this is what's also happened with Thomas.
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Offline wivenhoe

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Re: The Life of Hannah Andrew - I'm scratching my head!
« Reply #8 on: Friday 01 September 23 03:37 BST (UK) »
Hannah ANDERSON was baptised on the 11 Mar 1810 to Henry ANDERSON and Harriet ANDERSON in Dewsbury, West Yorkshire.

6 September 1838- Hannah ANDREW gives birth to a son named Robinson ANDREW in Carr Gate, East Ardsley, Yorkshire. She has registered her own father’s name and occupation (Henry Andrew – miner) as Robinson’s biological father. This does not make sense.

How  do you see Hannah's use of the name Henry for father of this Robinson, to be her own father, Henry ANDERSON?  Hannah is "borrrowing" her father's name?

"8th July 1839- Hannah ANDREW’s son Robinson ANDREW dies at 9 months old from measles in Carr Gate. The death was witnessed by Hannah’s mother, Harriet ANDREW. "

Can you confirm please that Harriet ANDREW, informant, is also identified to be the grandmother of the child whose death is being registered?  You see the word "grandmother?"

Through which child of Hannah ANDERSON, baptised on the 11 Mar 1810, are you descended?