Where is Lizzie Carroll after 1908?

[oldohiohome]

Elizabeth "Lizzie" Carroll was baptized as Bess Carroll 1 September 1868 in Dromintee Catholic Parish, Armagh, the daughter of Owen Carroll and Anne Quinn. The civil birth record shows they lived in Carrickastickan Townland, Forkhill Civil Parish.

On March 3, 1908, the Armagh Guardian reported that Lizzie Carroll had been arrested for abandoning a child with a woman on Banbrook, town of Armagh. The September 28, 1908, Ulster Gazette reported her sentencing to one month's imprisonment for doing so.

Lizzie disappears after that and was said to have "gone to America."

I know these two Lizzies are the same person because the person I am helping is the grandson of the child who was abandoned. He has a second cousin DNA match with a grandson of Lizzies's brother Bernard. That man does not know what happened to Lizzie.

We are not looking for information regarding the child. We have everything we need there and would like to keep his name out of this thread. We have his birth, workhouse record, the name of the woman he was put in care of, and his 1911 census with the woman's family. If you find anything else about him that would help us find Lizzie, please PM me instead of posting it here.

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What we know so far that might help: Lizzie's father Owen died 25 December 1882, her mother on 8 April 1888, both in Carrickastickan. Her older brother Bernard took over the farm and remained there until his death in 1946. Lizzie had 3 other siblings:

Catherine Carroll, born 20 April 1872 and died 31 March 1886, both in Carrickastickan.

Patrick Carroll, born 7 March 1864, Carrickastickan. He was the informant when his sister Catherine died and is not found after that. I didn't find him anywhee on the 1901 Census of Ireland or on the civil marriage or death records up to 1922.

Anne Carroll, born 29 May 1866, Carrickastickan. Similar story. I didn't find her on the 1901 or 1911 censuses of Ireland or the civil marriage or death records up to 1922.

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I looked for her as Bess, Lizzie, Elizabeth, and Eliza Carroll on the 1910 Census of the US, and the 1911 censuses of England, Wales, Scotland, and Canada. There are four possible matches in Scotland in 1911 but I am holding off looking for them since scotlandspeople is a paid site. Scotland was never mentioned as a place Lizzie went and I haven't found any connection between Scotland and this family.

I've also looked on the UK outgoing passenger list at ancestry, and the US immigration passenger manifests.

I haven't looked on any Australian records, since I am not familiar with them at all. But I don't see a reason why she would go that far.

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She is very likely not this person:
1911 Residents of a house 16 in Aghayalloge (Killevy, Armagh)
Lizzie Carroll, 35, head, domestic servant, single
Francis Carroll, 8, son, scholar
both Roman Catholic, both born in Armagh
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Armagh/Killevy/Aghayalloge/304244/

Her age is off by 8 years and there is no mention of an older child at her trial.

That woman could be:
Elizabeth Carroll, baptism 5 December 1875, Ballymacnab, Armagh, daughter of James Carroll and Catherine McKenna
https://www.ancestrylibrary.com/discoveryui-content/view/6838420:61039?tid=&pid=&queryId=81a148c418606c9d2fcb746d4bd02e12&_phsrc=bPE21&_phstart=successSource

Civil Registration, 23 December 1875, Ennislare, father a farmer
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1875/03083/2129934.pdf


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I really don't think she is either of these two women on the 1910 US Census.
Lizzie Carroll, a nun in Omaha, Nebraska, qualified at the time to be a teacher. Lizzie was a domestic servant when arrested.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:ML44-J81

Elizabeth Carroll, age 42, in 1910 in Manhattan and says she arrived at age 2
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M5WG-R44

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She is not the Lizzie Carroll who arrived in Vancouver in 1918. That woman was born in Co. Antrim, had last lived in New Zealand, and had been in California in 1903.
She is not the woman who arrived in New York in 1909 and 1918 who was with the Salvation Army. On the 1910 of Manhattan, NYC, she said she arrived in 1887. The Carrolls were Catholic.

Thank you for reading this far and for your help.

[Milliepede]

Taking the "gone to America" with a pinch of salt for the moment have you checked for a death for her in Ireland soon after 1908 - or even a marriage - just to rule those avenues out. 

She could have been living with someone and be under that surname in plain sight as it were.

[oldohiohome]

I checked marriages in all Ireland until 1922 and she is not there.

I think I checked Irish deaths before 1911, but I didn't make a note that I did, so I will check again. Thank you for catching this.

What I forgot is that she might have gone to England, Wales, or Scotland and died or married there before 1911. That will be next on my list, but I'm not sure I'll wade through the possibilities. Lots of marriages on freebmd from 1908 to 1911.

[oldohiohome]

I looked again at the records.
Lizzie/Elizabeth Carroll did not die in Ireland before 1911, or before 1922 for that matter.
She did not die in England before the 1911 Census was taken. There were 3 Elizabeth Carroll deaths, but they can be accounted for by women who were in the local area in 1901.

[shanreagh]

I wouldn't take the 'gone to America  ' with a pinch of salt.  We had something similar in my mother's family......'they've gone to America and no-one's heard from them again', repeated right down to my mother who heard it from her mother.  These were the brothers of my gt grandmother.

Then we looked at a very old photgraph album and there were carte de vistes of two people taken at photographic studios in Philadelphia.  One brother definitely found and the other a strong possibility in Kentucky.  So they had been heard of again, my gt grandmother died when my grandmother was 11 and probably her father, who was in desperate straits trying to look after 5 children under the age of 11 in a new country, maybe did not know these brothers, who had left before he was married. 

Re the entry of the person found in NZ & applies elsewhere too.  It is a trap sometimes I have found where passengers enter the place of last residence as the place where they boarded the ship.  Hence my Gt grandmother, sister of the two missing uncles, boarded a ship in Portsmouth and her entry in the shipping list has Portsmouth as the last place of residence. 

So if your missing person  went on board in Belfast going somewhere then she may have said Co Antrim. 

[oldohiohome]

That lady's information doesn't match what we know of Lizzie.
The woman arriving in Vancover had no occupation, had last lived with a niece in Taumarunui NZ and had sailed from Sydney, Australia. She had been in the US before, in California, from 1903 to 1905 maybe, it's hard to read.

In 1908, Lizzie was a domestic servant in the town of Armagh who, in a court case, said she was only earning 10 pounds per year.

[Stanwix England]

There is a newspaper report Yorkshire Evening Post - Wednesday 24 October 1917

An Elizabeth Carroll aged 47 was working as a house keeper at the Grand Central Hotel in Leeds. She fell down a goods lift.

The article says there was going to be an inquest, but I can't find any further details in the papers. Nor can I find a death record that matches it, which is a little odd.

I know the age given is a few years out - but if their information wasn't right, it's not so far out that it couldn't be her - in my opinion.

[oldohiohome]

Thank you, that's close enough to look at further, and the line of work I would expect.
Would the article be at britishnewspaperarchives by any chance?

Edited to add: ... because I have a pay per view account there right now and will look for it if it is.
not asking for a lookup.

[Stanwix England]

Yes Yorkshire Evening Post - Wednesday 24 October 1917

Page 4 of 4

4th column from the left, towards the bottom.