Minor marrying

[misstinkerbell77]

I'm going to throw this in just as a speculative punt, until it can be ruled in or out, the detail can be found in NLI RC parish records and in civil records for the 1864+ births, I'll be as brief as I can, in case it's a red herring.

It's a couple called John O'Brien and Bridget Egan who married in 1855 in Ss Peter & Paul's Clonmel, Tipperary, within the Diocese of Waterford and Lismore, which covers both counties Tipperary and Waterford. In the following, sometimes the surname O'Brien is used, other times it's just Brien.

I can see a run of children for this couple, all baptised in Ss Peter & Paul's Clonmel, Tipperary, except one. Those baptised in Ss Peter & Paul's Clonmel are Thomas John Brien (1858), Anastasia Brien (1860), Ambrose O'Brien (1862), Bridget O'Brien (1865), John Brien / O'Brien (1867), Frederick O'Brien (1869) and Patrick Brien / O'Brien (1872). The baptismal records don't mention any address for these folk, the 1864+ civil birth records give their address as different streets in Clonmel, Tipperary. 

Between Frederick and Patrick, there is a baptismal record for an Anne Brien who was baptised in Castletown Geoghan RC parish, County Westmeath, it took place on 19 November 1870, parents recorded as John Brien (soldier) + Bridget Egan, the sponsor was Anne Daly (right page):
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000635098#page/15/mode/1up

When I went looking for a corresponding civil birth for Anne, the only record I could find shows her mother's maiden name as Owens - I'm not sure why, though I'm aware of sources that say Egan is ultimately descended from Eoghan, for which Owen is the anglicised version.  Anyhow, the civil birth was registered in Castletown Geoghan, County Westmeath, Anne was born on 15 November 1870 to 'John Brien 89th Regiment India' and Bridget Owens, I can't make out the address, I thought it was maybe the townland of Garhy, but it looks like there's a 't' in there, so maybe not:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1870/03321/2217113.pdf

As reference, here are the civil birth registrations for Frederick and Patrick who were born before and after Anne - I'm wondering if Bridget maybe travelled from Clonmel to whatever that place is in County Westmeath to vist friends / relatives and have her child, while John was away soldiering.

Frederick in 1869:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03381/2239592.pdf

Patrick in 1872:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1872/03258/2193917.pdf

Anyhow, see what you think, it does tick some boxes, for example the birth day and month is close and the geography of Clonmel in Tipperary and Castletown Geoghan in Westmeath sort of covers all bases, in terms of what you've mentioned as her birthplace in the various censuses.

Wow! Thank you so much for this, it’s certainly given me a lot to look into.  Very much appreciated! 

[gaffy]

You're welcome. Here's the 1855 marriage in the Ss Peter and Paul's Clonmel register, as to be expected, not a lot of information, 19 November, groom's name, bride's name, 2 witnesses:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632168#page/56/mode/1up

John's reg. no. in the 89th Foot was 3125, he was recorded as Brien rather than O'Brien, I can only see scant information about his career, there's an 1861 reference to him being a Private in Umballa (Ambala) in India and likewise in 1871 in Cannanore (Kannur), India. When John and Bridget had their daughter Bridget in 1865, he was described as 'Labourer & Pensioner', so maybe he returned to service?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03581/2320134.pdf

[dublin1850]

Garhy and Garthy are the same place.
https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/5009076/4984196/5118386

[misstinkerbell77]

You're welcome. Here's the 1855 marriage in the Ss Peter and Paul's Clonmel register, as to be expected, not a lot of information, 19 November, groom's name, bride's name, 2 witnesses:
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000632168#page/56/mode/1up

John's reg. no. in the 89th Foot was 3125, he was recorded as Brien rather than O'Brien, I can only see scant information about his career, there's an 1861 reference to him being a Private in Umballa (Ambala) in India and likewise in 1871 in Cannanore (Kannur), India. When John and Bridget had their daughter Bridget in 1865, he was described as 'Labourer & Pensioner', so maybe he returned to service?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1865/03581/2320134.pdf

Thank you so much, it would have taken me forever to find all the info you have given me!  So very grateful    Now to sit and look into it all and figure some stuff out!

[misstinkerbell77]

Garhy and Garthy are the same place.
https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/5009076/4984196/5118386

Thanks for this 

[gaffy]

Garhy and Garthy are the same place.
https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/5009076/4984196/5118386

Good spot, that was doing my head in, for I could see nothing else that came close.  Interesting to note that the 1930s school pupil, a genuine local, abbreviated it to 'Castletown G.' as well.

Edited to add:

Garhy townland - https://www.townlands.ie/westmeath/moycashel/castletownkindalen/jamestown/garhy/

It was some 90 miles from Clonmel to Garhy, so a long enough journey for the era, maybe John decided to sign up again at Mullingar?  From that school pupil's piece in the 1930s, I've no reason to doubt that Garhy was an equally small place in 1870, I can only imagine the likes of a familial link to the place for Bridget to have her daughter there.   

[misstinkerbell77]

Garhy and Garthy are the same place.
https://www.duchas.ie/en/cbes/5009076/4984196/5118386

Good spot, that was doing my head in, for I could see nothing else that came close.  Interesting to note that the 1930s school pupil, a genuine local, abbreviated it to 'Castletown G.' as well.

Edited to add:

Garhy townland - https://www.townlands.ie/westmeath/moycashel/castletownkindalen/jamestown/garhy/

It was some 90 miles from Clonmel to Garhy, so a long enough journey for the era, maybe John decided to sign up again at Mullingar?  From that school pupil's piece in the 1930s, I've no reason to doubt that Garhy was an equally small place in 1870, I can only imagine the likes of a familial link to the place for Bridget to have her daughter there.

Thanks for the info.  Anne’s birth was registered by Madge Owens, so could be Bridget’s mum or sister maybe