Sorting out DNA, does this make sense?

[Stanwix England]

Hi all,

I'm very new to sorting out DNA matches. I'm wondering if my line of thinking would be correct here. I really appreciate someone looking over this because I find it all a bit mind bending.

I've been looking for who my 2nd Great Grandfather might have been, as my Great Grandmother was illegitimate, and I've just got in to using DNA to try and work this all out.

Someone came up as a potential 2nd-3rd cousin for me. We’ll call him Bob Wall. Looking at mutual matches, I don’t believe he’s linked to any of my other lines. Ancestry says he's a paternal match, which would be on the side I'm looking for.

Looking at Bob's tree, Bob comes from the Wall family. His Great Grandfather is Simon Wall.

Simon Wall comes from the same geographic area as my 2nd Great Grandmother did, and where my Great Grandmother was born.



Bob and I have another mutual DNA match on Ancestry. Her name, for the purpose of this post, is Mary Kennedy. 

Mary has a small tree attached to her DNA results, which I have been able to see.



Mary is also descended from the Wall family. She is descended from John Wall, brother of Simon Wall. 



The brothers, John and Simon Wall would both be about the right age to have fathered my Great Grandmother, and a similar age as my 2nd Great Grandmother.

John and Simon Wall have another brother as well. I haven't found any descendants of his so far.

While I understand that I can't say which of them is my 2nd Great Grandfather, is it reasonable to suggest that there is a possibility that my 2nd Great Grandfather was of the 'Wall' line and could have been one of these three men, or their father even?

Especially as I seem to DNA match with both Bob Wall and Mary Kennedy, who are the descendants of two different Wall brothers?

Thank you

[jc26red]

Hi Stanwix

Can you tell us the cM distance value (from you) for both Bob and Mary? This might help work out which one is the closer relative.

You are doing well at tracking it down to the right area and it looks like you are on the right track

Have you checked if Simon and John have any other male siblings and how old would their father be around the same time… you have to rule him out too.

[Stanwix England]

Thank you jc26red.

Their father was possibly dead by the time my Great Grandmother was conceived. I'm not certain when he died, but he was gone before the March 1901 census, and my Great Grandmother was born in the same year. So I can't rule him out of certain until I can confirm his date of death.

I share 106cm with Bob Wall.

I share 23cm with Mary Kennedy

Sorry, I didn't answer your other question. John and Simon Wall had another brother, but I haven't found any descendants for him.

[Biggles50]

Have you used DNA Painter, if not please give it a try and specifically their Shared cM DNA tool.

Enter the cM value of a match and it gives the relationship probabilities.

In your case it will be a 1/2 relationship since you will only have one MRCA with the match.

The 106cM does give quite a range which using your knowledge of the generational distances between you and the match’s it can help you narrow it down.

[Stanwix England]

Thank you Biggles50. I'm going to have to take some time to get my head around all of that, but when I do I'll get right on it. I find I have to take small steps with this DNA stuff. Just got my head around the Leeds method etc.

Looking at one of the brothers, the ancestor of Bob Wall, so far I haven't found anything in the evidence that rules him out in my opinion.

He only lived about 20 miles away from my 2nd GG, so not a big distance.

Plus he was a boat customs officer living in one port, she lived in the next port up along the coast. She may even have been in the same town as him at one point, as she worked as a milliner so could have taken her work anywhere really.

He was already married so that would have ruled out them getting together and maybe put her off saying anything about him?

All still speculation of course.

EDIT: I had a look at the DNA painter and it wasn't as difficult as I thought it might be. The highest probability of a match between me and Bob Wall, is what we would be if my updated tree and suppositions are correct. So I'm reasonably confident I've got the right family.

[Biggles50]

Another thing you could try is to download your Ancestry DNA (don’t worry it does not delete it on Ancestry) and then create a My Heritage account, subscribe there for a month and upload your DNA there.

Create a tree of you and your parents, then leave it a few days for the DNA match’s to be compiled.

Then use their Chromosome Browser which will make a chart similar to the Leeds Method.

It may help in determining which clusters offer the most likely hood of solving the brickwalls.

Hopefully other DNA Cousins have posted there as their DNA test is far cheaper than Ancestry’s

[Heb66]

Hi,
I have a 105 centimorgan DNA match. The common link between was my great-grandmother and his great-grandmother were siblings.
Hope this may help.
Regards...Helen.

[scotmum]

Also have a look at the WATO (What are the odds?) tool on DNA painter. You could work up a rough tree and see what suggestions it gives.