Author Topic: William Jones c.1828  (Read 1016 times)

Offline ASmithy

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William Jones c.1828
« on: Friday 15 September 23 12:25 BST (UK) »
I am trying to look back at 2nd Great Grandfather Frederick Jones who was born in 1876 in Birmingham, Warwickshire. I have managed to find his father and mother, William Jones and Eliza, but I am having trouble understanding the life of this family, in particular William Jones.

William Jones, was born in Birstol, Gloucestershire around 1828.
I believe he married Elizabeth Gilkes on 13 October 1866 in St Peter & St Paul's Church in Aston, Warwickshire. William is said to be a 38-year-old Bachelor. His occupation is quoted as 'Smith' and gives his fathers name as George Jones, who is a Box Maker. Elizabeth Gilkes is a 28-year-old Spinster. She gives her father's name as James Gilkes, a Weaver? The witnesses to their marriage are
  • George Smithward?
  • Sarah Gilkes.

In the 1871 Census, they can be seen living at 9 High Street, Saltley, Birmingham. William is a 42-year-old Striker, from Bristol. He is living with his wife Elizabeth, aged 33 from Horton, Oxfordshire. Along in their household are their 4 children.
  • William (junior), aged 13 from Birmingham, Warwickshire. He is an Errand Boy
  • Elizabeth (junior), aged 9 from Horton Oxfordshire.
  • Thomas, aged 3, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • James aged 0, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.

In the 1881 Census, they can be seen living at 8 House 13 Court, Yenon? Street, Duddeston. William is a 52-year-old Striker from Clifton, Warwickshire [I believe this is meant to be Clifton, Gloucestershire, an area of Bristol]. He is living with his wife Elizabeth, aged 43 from Horton, Oxfordshire. Also in their household are their 7 children.
  • Elizabeth (junoir), aged 18, from Horton, Oxfordshire.
  • James, aged 12, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • George, aged 9, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • Frederick, aged 5, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • Alice B, aged 4 from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • Samuel, aged 1, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • Henry, aged 0, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.

In the 1891 Census, they can be found living at 9 Junction Road, Handsworth. William is a 63-year-old Striker Smith from Bristol, Gloucestershire. He is living with his wife Elizabeth, aged 59, from Oxford Town, Oxfordshire. They are living with their 4 children.
  • Alice, aged 13, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • Samuel, aged 11, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • John, aged 7, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • Frederick, aged 15, from Birmingham. He is a Boiler Wetter?

William Jones died at the age of 69 in 1897, in West Bromwich, Staffordshire. Not to far from his last location in Handsworth, Staffordshire. Elizabeth (senior) goes on to outlive her husband until 1901. She is seen the in 1901 Census.

In the 1901 Census Elizabeth (senior) is living with her son George. Elizabeth is a 60-year-old widow, from Horton, Oxfordshire. Her son, George, is the head of the household, where they live at 2 Fair View on Green Lane, Handsworth, Staffordshire. George is a 29-year-old Gas Engine Erector from Birmingham, Warwickshire. He is living with his wife Ada Florance, aged 26, from Preston, Lancaster. They live with their 4 children
  • George Frederick, aged 6, from Smethwick, Staffordshire.
  • Wilfred John, aged 5, from Handsworth, Staffordshire.
  • Frank James, aged 2, from Handsworth, Staffordshire.
  • Mary Florance, aged 0, from Handsworth, Staffordshire.
Also in his household is George's two brothers,
  • Samuel, aged 21, from Birmingham, Warwickshire. A Blacksmith
  • John, aged 18, from Birmingham, Warwickshire. A Bolt? Dealer


I will post my query and problem below.

Kindest Regards
ASmithy

Offline ASmithy

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Re: William Jones c.1828
« Reply #1 on: Friday 15 September 23 12:27 BST (UK) »
Taking this information, it would seem that William (junior) and Elizabeth (Junior) were born out of wedlock, which makes the possibility of Elizabeth (senior) not being their actual mother. William (junior) would have been born around 1858, some 8 years before the marriage between William and Elizabeth. Elizabeth (junior) would have been born around 1862, some 4 years before their marriage.

I decided to look for a baptism record for either William or Elizabeth (junior) and managed to find a possible record for William. The possible record supports that Elizabeth is the mother but contradicts it in the 1861 census I have found.
In 1858, there is a baptism record which says A William Jones was baptised at St George Church, Birmingham on 29 Jul 1858. The address given is St George Street. William (senior) is a Nail? Maker. His mother is said to be Elizabeth.

Upon looking at St George Street, Birmingham in the 1861 Census, I found a William Jones (senior). He is a 32-year-old Hammerman, from Bristol, Gloucestershire. He is living with his wife JANE a 34-year-old Sling? Master?, from Middlesex, Islington. In the household are their 3 children.
  • Hellen, aged 9, from Commercial Road, Stepney, London.
  • William, aged 2, a twin, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.
  • Jane, aged 2, a twin, from Birmingham, Warwickshire.

If this is to be the same people, then why is on the baptism record, the mother marked as Elizabeth but living in the property and WIFE to William, is a woman called Jane from London?
If not, then what other possibilities might there be that I may have missed?

Offline trish1120

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Re: William Jones c.1828
« Reply #2 on: Friday 15 September 23 12:51 BST (UK) »
Just started looking at this but in 1871 Williams occp is Errand Boy.

Trish :)
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Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: William Jones c.1828
« Reply #3 on: Friday 15 September 23 15:26 BST (UK) »
Good Afternoon
There is a baptism for the twins William and Jane at Bishops Ryder 5.8.1859 .Parents William and Jane of 53 Duke St a striker.

Elizabeth Gilkes is a housemaid age 20 on the 1861 at Burton Dassett
1851 Hornton with family
James 54 weaver Hornton
Elizabeth 48 Warwickshire
John 24
James 18 weaver
George 16 weaver
Henry 14 ag lab
Thomas 12
Elizabeth 10 (bapt 26 Dec 1841)
Caroline 8
Sarah 5

It would be a reach for her to be in Birmingham with William Jones in 1858 and then move back to the Hornton /Burton Dassett area for 1861.

Ciderdrinker


Offline osprey

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Re: William Jones c.1828
« Reply #4 on: Friday 15 September 23 16:09 BST (UK) »
I've been looking at that same family. The Elizabeth is a little younger than the census entries when she is married but a likely candidate
birth reg Elizabeth Gilks sept qtr 1841 vol 16 pg 23 mmn Flowers

possible birth reg for daughter Elizabeth
Eliza Coy Gilkes sept qtr 1862 Banbury vol 3a pg 603 - I think mmn is blank but can't get onto GRO site to check at the moment.

 :-\
Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline Mabel Bagshawe

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Re: William Jones c.1828
« Reply #5 on: Friday 15 September 23 22:10 BST (UK) »
GILKES, WILLIAM  THOMAS
mmn blank           
Q4 1858
BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 200

GILKES, ELIZABETH   
mmn blank     
Q1 1861
BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 216
Added - possible burial February 1861 aged 14 days. Address Venion (?) St

GILKES, ELIZA  COY
mmn blank
Q3  1862 BANBURY UNION  Volume 03A  Page 603

Offline osprey

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Re: William Jones c.1828
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 16 September 23 20:23 BST (UK) »
interesting! I wonder where young William Thomas is in 1861?

Forgot to mention the occupation of Jane in 1861 is shirt maker.

Cornwall: Allen, Bevan, Bosisto, Carnpezzack, Donithorn, Huddy, James, Retallack, Russell, Vincent, Yeoman
Cards: Thomas (Llanbadarn Fawr)
Glam: Bowler, Cram, Galloway, James, Thomas, Watkins
Lincs: Coupland, Cram
Mon: Cram, Gwyn, John, Philpot, Smart, Watkins
Pembs: Edwards (St. Dogmael's)
Yorks: Airey, Bowler, Elliott, Hare, Hewitt, Kellett, Kemp, Stephenson, Tebb

Offline ASmithy

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Re: William Jones c.1828
« Reply #7 on: Monday 18 September 23 09:22 BST (UK) »
Not sure why I have not got notifications for this thread? I apologize to you all for not getting back sooner.

Elizabeth Gilkes is a housemaid age 20 on the 1861 at Burton Dassett
Thank you for finding Elizabeth's 1861 Census. I feel this is the correct person given that her place of birth is Horton, Oxfordshire too.
I totally agree, her being in Birmingham, making the likelyhood of being the mother to William and Elizabeth very slim.

possible birth reg for daughter Elizabeth
Eliza Coy Gilkes sept qtr 1862 Banbury vol 3a pg 603 - I think mmn is blank but can't get onto GRO site to check at the moment.

Oh, okay. So you recon that maybe Elizabeth may actually be Elizabeth's daughter instead, and later took on the name of Jones? I wonder if that might be the same for William too then? Thank you for finding this possibility.

interesting! I wonder where young William Thomas is in 1861?

Forgot to mention the occupation of Jane in 1861 is shirt maker.

I am confused on why there is a William who was baptized in St George Church, Birmingham on 29 Jul 1858, but has a mother's name as Elizabeth. Going by the address given on the record matches a person who is currently living there in the 1861 census but with a mother named Jane!

Kindest Regards
ASmithy

Offline ciderdrinker

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Re: William Jones c.1828
« Reply #8 on: Monday 18 September 23 10:49 BST (UK) »
Hi
Yes that does seem odd but there is the christening you found at St George with mother Elizabeth 29 July 1858 and the one  I found  with mother Jane 5th August 1859 and twin Jane which does match the census.
Is it the same William? Having the same address as the 1861 census does seem to match up but where is his twin mentioned on the census?

1851 William Jones senior is lodging at 15 Thomas St Birmingham
William Jones  lodger 23 unmarried bricklayers labourer Bristol.

So he is in the City by then.

Ciderdrinker