Author Topic: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813  (Read 407 times)

Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,005
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« on: Monday 18 September 23 16:06 BST (UK) »
First time I believe on the Scotland boards so 'hi'. And apologies in advance for the length of the post....

I'm researching a tree for a friend and am trying to unravel a mystery - the family has been researched many times over the last 50-60 years by her ancestors / relatives but I'm trying to establish the facts, though I appreciate I'm unlikely to uncover the truth.

Margaret Hooper was baptised on 10 March 1839 at St Philip and St Jacob, in Bristol, giving her date of birth as 23 May 1803, daughter of Thomas Hooper, a retired RN surgeon, and his wife Margaret. Thomas and Margaret had married on 26 August 1836 in St Paul's, Bristol, though it seems that they met and lived together in Inverkeithing in the early 1800s, though Thomas subsequently re-joined the navy and moved to Bristol on retirement, joined at some stage by Margaret.

Their daughter Margaret married John Culveer (various spellings over the years) in Inverkeithing on 7 Jan 1827. They had 6 children in Inverkeithing, 1827 (Robert), 1829 (William), 1830 (Margaret Crawford, her mother's maiden name), 1831 (Thomas Hooper), 1833 (Jennet Paton), and 1836 (George Hooper) before the family moved to the Bristol area. Five more children followed between 1837 and 1845.

The mystery surrounds the years between her mother Margaret's death on 30 October 1842, and her father Thomas's will written on 19 April 1844 where he disinherits Margaret (his only known child), claiming that 'whereas I had made a former will making provision for Margaret the wife of John Gulvear, in consequence of her gross misconduct in falsely asserting herself to be my daughter I revoke every bequest made by me in any former will....' and leaves everything to Jacob Crook (and appoints him as executor).  Thomas died on 19 May 1845 of old age and anasarca, at Brandon St, parish of St Augustine - this was the home of Jacob Crook.

The Clifton board of guardians took Thomas to court (newspaper report of 8 June 1844) describing him as a gentleman in 'easy circumstances' and asking the court to compel him to maintain his daughter Margaret, wife of John Gilvear, and her 10 children. Thomas had acknowledged Margaret as his daughter, and supported the family, until October 1843. They lost the case as they were unable to provide evidence of her parents' marriage in Scotland.

I've not found a marriage either, despite trying all variations of both names, but her baptism entry is strange. There is an entry in the Inverkeithing baptisms on Scotland's People (page 176) for a Margaret Cooper, daughter of Thomas Cooper (edited from John in initial post), surgeon, and Margaret Crawford, saying 'born in fornication 22 May 1813 - just one day out, and 10 years - and baptised named Margaret'. However, it appears at the bottom of a page of 1803 baptisms, and the following page is for 1803 too.  It doesn't appear to be in the same writing nor does it have Margaret's name in large letters underneath as do the other entries on the page. All subsequent records, including her second baptism in Bristol, give her birth in 1803. This does seem to support the ideas made by relatives over the years that the entry was somehow changed as a means of invalidating Margaret's claim to be Thomas's daughter.

I do have the ScotlandsPeople images of the 2 relevant pages around Margaret's baptism, and the marriage of Margaret and John.

While I'm not suggesting anything could be done about this now, I'd be interested to see if anyone can find an earlier marriage in Scotland for Thomas Hooper and Margaret Crawford, though I guess that's unlikely given their later marriage in Bristol. I would also love to hear any comments on this rather strange story.

Thanks for reading.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Online Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,909
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« Reply #1 on: Monday 18 September 23 17:01 BST (UK) »
I'm finding this a bit confusing. What, according to the 1936 marriage record, was the maiden surname of Margaret, wife of Thomas Hooper?

And is there any evidence showing that John Cooper and Thomas Hooper were one and the same?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,005
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« Reply #2 on: Monday 18 September 23 17:22 BST (UK) »
Hi Forfarian, it is confusing especially with both females being Margaret, and I have made it worse sorry. The daughter Margaret married John Gulveer. I’ll edit the post.

Margaret Crawford married Thomas Hooper in 1836. 

Their daughter Margaret’s baptism in Inverkeithing according to the register dated 1813, says daughter of Thomas Cooper, surgeon, and Margaret.

Her baptism in Bristol says ‘Daughter of Thomas Hooper, surgeon, and Margaret’.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Online Forfarian

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 14,909
  • http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ruz/
    • View Profile
Re: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« Reply #3 on: Monday 18 September 23 17:34 BST (UK) »
Ah, that makes a bit more sense.

I would have expected the Kirk Session to have something to say about this, but unfortunately the Inverkeithing Kirk Session minutes from 1803 onwards seem to be missing. Murphy's Law!
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,005
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« Reply #4 on: Monday 18 September 23 17:57 BST (UK) »
Ah, that makes a bit more sense.

I would have expected the Kirk Session to have something to say about this, but unfortunately the Inverkeithing Kirk Session minutes from 1803 onwards seem to be missing. Murphy's Law!

Oh well, thanks for looking.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline CaroleW

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 70,949
  • Barney 1993-2004
    • View Profile
Re: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« Reply #5 on: Monday 18 September 23 17:57 BST (UK) »
I wonder why she was baptised again in 1839?    In 1813 - she was presumably baptised as Hooper??

If she was b 1803/13 and Hooper & Crawford only married 1836 - even allowing for him being in the RN that's a very long time between a birth & a marriage

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,005
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« Reply #6 on: Monday 18 September 23 19:32 BST (UK) »
It is all very strange. I wonder if daughter Margaret and family only moved to Bristol (first Bristol child born in Feb 1837) following her parents marriage and she was then baptised to ‘tie up loose ends’ in the family. Seems it all fell apart after her mother’s death.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,005
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« Reply #7 on: Monday 18 September 23 19:49 BST (UK) »
I did find something online a few weeks ago (need to look for it again) suggesting (as part of this court case) that John Gilvear was a common labourer who came to Bristol and saw the chance to inherit money by marrying Margaret - despite the fact that they had actually been married for 15 years and had 10 children by then.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....

Offline Deirdre784

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,005
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Margaret Hooper, born Inverkeithing, 1803 or 1813
« Reply #8 on: Monday 18 September 23 21:46 BST (UK) »
Just discovered that all the older children of John and Margaret were baptised together in Bristol on 5 March 1837. Then Benjamin in the same church a week later, aged 1 month.
CARDIFF:Lord,Griffiths,Barry,Cope,Mahoney ~ PEMBROKESHIRE:Griffiths,Rees,Owen,Thomas ~ ESSEX:Lord,Foreman,Hatch ~ SOMERSET:Lord,Cox,Hockey,Linham,Bryant ~ STAFFORDSHIRE:Cope,Elks,Hackney,Gallimore,Davenport ~ SUFFOLK:Lord,Lockwood,Hatch,Rix,Foreman ~ IRELAND:Barry,Meany,Cummins,Grogan ~
PONTYPRIDD:Leigh,Brooks,Adams,Davies,Thomas ~ KENT:Leigh ~ CHESHIRE:Adams,Tudor,Illidge ~ DENBIGHSHIRE:Edwards,Bolas ~BRECON:Leigh,Thomas,Davies ~SOMERSET:Adams,Keitch,Bridge ~ABERGAVENNY:Minton ~ MERTHYR:.....