Author Topic: RAF Service Record - Identifying Units  (Read 465 times)

Offline patchbod

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RAF Service Record - Identifying Units
« on: Tuesday 19 September 23 16:03 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone,

I wonder if someone could help me get a sense of my grandfather's RAF service record, the units he was with and what he might have got up to during the war.

He shared some small stories with his son - apparently he crashed his spitfire and was hospitalised, so then was discharged and transferred to light bombers Mosquitos and Bristol Blenheims.

His stories are of interest to me since I didn't know him well. He was Jewish and fled Austria leaving all his family, volunteering for the RAF. Something particularly interesting to me is that he apparently after the war set off on a top secret mission to arm the Israelis with ex-Nazi hardware (ME 109s) and was engaged flying them against Spitfires in the 6 day war against Egypt. I remember as a child hearing him rail against the state of Israel and saying he'd never go back there. I don't know whether there is any detail to this here.

Section 40 and 41 were applied to the Freedom of Information Request I made to release his records.

Thanks so much in advance,
P

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KYvSGLm5j8NNOoJyYxd5cIPrZtH7eq2W/view?usp=sharing

Online ShaunJ

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Re: RAF Service Record - Identifying Units
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 21 October 23 06:51 BST (UK) »
Just seen this.

He wasn't a pilot in the RAF. He was a wireless mechanic. An Aircraftman 2nd Class to start with, then a Corporal.

 The bit about the 6 day war isn't right. That war was in 1967. Israel did use a few Czech variants of the Me 109 in 1948/9 and there were clashes with Egyptian Spitfires in the 1948 war.
UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: RAF Service Record - Identifying Units
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 21 October 23 14:29 BST (UK) »
RAF

RC = Recruitment Centre.
OTU = Operational Training Unit.
MU = Maintenance Unit.
FEU Bicester 1944 = Forward Equipment Unit Bicester.
PDC = Personnel Despatch Centre
SQDN = Squadron.
AFHQ = Allied Force Headquarters

AFHQ search under AIR ...
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_aq=AFHQ&_cr=AIR&_dss=range&_sd=1939&_ed=1946&_ro=any&_st=adv

567 Squadron, December 1943 to June 1946 in AIR 27 (free download if signed in)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C2504682

Forward Equipment Unit at Stapleford Tawney and at Bicester 1944 in AIR 29
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7161724

OTU and RAF Units in "AIR 29" for each numbered OTU ORBs (Operations Record Book)
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/advanced-search

RAF Station ORBs are in "AIR 28" by place name.

Regarding
W/Mech
Wireless Mechanic

A Table of Trades in a publication called ABC of the RAF
A.C.H. Under Training Radio/Wireless Mechanic
"Applicants should be of School Certificate Standard, and/or have taken evening classes in mathematics or physics."

Wireless Mechanic
"Applicants must have a good practical and theoretical knowledge of Radio but will not be required to know or at a later date to learn Morse."

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: RAF Service Record - Identifying Units
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 October 23 18:00 BST (UK) »
Abreviations continued

141 Airfield
Claimed online to be on p.54 of:-

Sturtivant, Ray; Hamlin, John; Halley, James J. (1997). Royal Air Force flying training and support units. UK: Air-Britain (Historians). ISBN 0-85130-252-1

I don't have this book.
 -----------
S of TT - School of Technical Training,

2S of TT. 'A' = 2 School of Technical Training 'A'

Mustering [ RAF Trades ]
ACH/ W R Mech
9 - 5 - 41
ACH = Aircraft hand / Wireless Radio Mechanic

u/t WM
u/t = under training


Offline BushInn1746

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Re: RAF Service Record - Identifying Units
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 October 23 21:17 BST (UK) »
Hello everyone,
 ...
His stories are of interest to me since I didn't know him well. He was Jewish and fled Austria leaving all his family ... . Something particularly interesting to me is that he apparently after the war set off on a top secret mission to arm the Israelis with ex-Nazi hardware (ME 109s) and was engaged flying them against Spitfires in the 6 day war against Egypt.


Zumbach and others who left the RAF came to mind ...

Jean Zumbach
https://robtryan.com/2018/09/01/hero-smuggler-mercenary-adventurer-the-real-zumbach/
In the immediate post-war years an enterprising and amoral Zumbach used his newly-formed Flyaway charter company to smuggle diamonds, cigarettes, Swiss watches, gold and people (the latter to ...

Mrs Noreen Harbord ...
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/37318153

Dundee Evening Telegraph 8th December 1950
Mrs Harbord is separately charged with attempting evade Customs duty on 7742 watches, and Jason-Henry is charged with a similar offence regarding 3484 watches and with ...

Daily Mirror 14 December 1950
Earlier the prosecution had introduced the names of three men on the Continent who had been known to Mrs. Harbord - Claude Serf, Johnny Zumbach and Fred Ebal.

An author who spent years on your kind of questions, said you don't get this type of info handed you on a plate.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: RAF Service Record - Identifying Units
« Reply #5 on: Monday 23 October 23 06:33 BST (UK) »
We don't seem to have a reply, but if still interested and he was living in Britain post-war, have you checked for a Great Britain, Royal Aero Club Aviator Certificate?

RAF Museum, Hendon
https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/online-exhibitions/taking-flight/pathway-to-pilot/royal-aero-club-aviators-certificate/

With a link to Ancestry

Ancestry:
"This database contains approximately 28,000 index cards and 34 photograph albums of aviators who were issued with their flying licences (certificates) by the Royal Aero Club from 1910-1950. These included the first military and naval personnel to become pilots.

The Royal Aero Club is the national organization for air sport, including private and recreational flying, in the United Kingdom.
"

Offline patchbod

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Re: RAF Service Record - Identifying Units
« Reply #6 on: Monday 23 October 23 10:56 BST (UK) »
Hello @BushInn1746 and thank you so much to everyone here for your insight and expertise. In short - wow, all this has changed the way I'm seeing the man.
It looks to me that as an Airman 2nd Class / Corporal he wasn't likely to have actually flown? If he did fly then, would it have been as a radio operator?
My Father swears he actually met someone who said they had pulled Ernest from a burning Spitfire. His own story was that he once drank too much and crashed a Spit on the runway (I note seeing hospitalisation at one point in the record). Perhaps he was delivering Spitfires and therefore flying them? He certainly said he delivered Mosquitos and Blenheims from Canada so this might tally.
It also doesn't look like he saw any real fighting. Which conflicts with a story our family tell where he was shot down over France in a Mosquito.
I looked at the record during his time with 567 Squadron and seems they were mostly doing logistical work, deliveries, coordinating ack ack units, pulling targets for live fire exercises.
Considering his background, it must have bothered him hugely not to get closer to the action.
And yes, in terms of what he got up to later, I see huge parallels with Jean Zumbach - the murky stuff in Israel followed by then leaving and vowing never to return there, followed by a lot of 'conservation' work in Africa, whatever that might have been. The stories go on but we'll leave them there for now.
Thanks again for your thoughts, I'll keep digging.

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: RAF Service Record - Identifying Units
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 22 November 23 16:58 GMT (UK) »
There is usually an Operations Record Book (TNA, Kew) for each:-
OTU = Operational Training Unit.
MU = Maintenance Unit.

To see if a particular Airman is mentioned, or not, but the amount of detail varies.

Note which RAF Station, Group number the OTU and MU came under, as Station, Group and Command usually have ORBs

White Waltham; West Malling and Manston were Stations, check AIR 28.

It is known to take extensive research to check or trace if an individual might be mentioned or not in ORBs, from Units given in Service Records.

Hospitalisation ought to get a mention, what was the date?
Any K.R. (King's Regulation) number against the event/s.

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