Author Topic: Harolds cross couple.  (Read 772 times)

Offline Abhanliath

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #18 on: Saturday 23 September 23 10:41 BST (UK) »
In relation to John/Jack, etc, government records like birth marriage and death certs tended to use the formal name - so someone who was known to all his friends as Jack or Mick or Sandy would be listed as John, Michael or Alexander; Cecilia was sometimes spelled Cecelia, and Frances became Fanny, Mary and Margeret became May and so on.
Then there's the question of names in Irish - as people became more intense about the need to separate from the British Empire, plenty of people used the Irish version of their names, so John might became Sean, or the older spelling Seaghan, and James Seamuis and Peter Peadar, and often Cecilia would become Sheila or Sighle, Florence would be Bláth or Bláithín… And the later death records, after independence from 1922 on and especially from 1949 on when Ireland became a republic, often use the name that was customarily used - so someone born Peter Kearney in 1883 was registered at death as Peadar O Cearnaigh in 1943.

Offline gaffy

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #19 on: Saturday 23 September 23 13:35 BST (UK) »
Irish Independent, 21 June 1950:

MARTIN - First Anniversary - In sad and loving memory of Shamey Martin, late of 37 Harold's Cross Cottage, who died on June 21 1949 ... - Inserted by his parents and brothers.

MARTIN - In loving memory of James Peter (Shamey), 37 Harold's Cross Cottages, Dublin, who died June 21 1949 ... Ever remembered by his brother and sister-in-law, Artie and Nellie.


The death registration is below, the reported age was 22, the informant was his father John Martin:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1949/04546/4199301.pdf


Offline gaffy

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #20 on: Saturday 23 September 23 16:51 BST (UK) »

Irish Independent, 21 June 1950:

MARTIN - First Anniversary - In sad and loving memory of Shamey Martin, late of 37 Harold's Cross Cottage, who died on June 21 1949 ... - Inserted by his parents and brothers.

MARTIN - In loving memory of James Peter (Shamey), 37 Harold's Cross Cottages, Dublin, who died June 21 1949 ... Ever remembered by his brother and sister-in-law, Artie and Nellie.


The death registration is below, the reported age was 22, the informant was his father John Martin:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1949/04546/4199301.pdf


There's a bit of me thinks that I'm having to try too hard with the following information to make it fit the story and that it's therefore just a red herring, but I'll post it anyway and you can make your own mind up.

Further to the above mention of Shamey Martin of 37 Harold's Cross and the mention of his brother Artie and Artie's wife Nellie, I wondered about the following death notice in the Dublin Evening Herald of 24 May 2002:

MARTIN (17 Dun an Oir, Shannon, Co. Clare and late of Harold's Cross Cottages, Dublin and Ballycalla, Newmarket-on-Fergus and T.W.A.Shannon), - May 23, 2002 (peacefully, in the loving care of the staff of the regional Hospital, Limerick, Arthur (Dinkie), beloved husband of the late Ellen (Nellie) and loving father of [names witheld as probably alive], brother of the late Patsy and Shamey ...

With the above mention of Ballycalla, I noticed the following marriage in 1946 between an Arthur Abraham Martin and Helena Keane, Arthur's father was recorded as John Martin:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1946/08720/5150185.pdf

The only birth with the name combination of Arthur Abraham Martin I've been able to find so far is the following one, born in 1920 in Holles Street Hospital Dublin to John Martin and Sarah Gregan:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01209/1502857.pdf

And the closest fit I could find for a marriage between a John Martin and a Sarah Gregan is this one in 1919, John's father was recorded as Arthur Martin:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1919/09685/5512867.pdf

It's a long way from Dublin to west Co. Clare, so as I said, it's all rather tenuous.


Offline gaffy

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #21 on: Saturday 23 September 23 17:09 BST (UK) »
Then there is the following death registration for a Sarah Martin of 37 Harold's X Cottages Dublin who died in 1972 as a result of a road traffic accident, she was married and her reported age was 76:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1972/04106/4039531.pdf
 


Offline Abhanliath

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #22 on: Saturday 23 September 23 17:47 BST (UK) »
West Clare was always a holiday place for Dubliners.

Offline grizzly1

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #23 on: Sunday 24 September 23 12:23 BST (UK) »
@Grizzly1 Are you sure they were married in Ireland? Sometimes people married abroad - as near as Holyhead, but also in Scotland or England.
That possibility did cross my mind, hopefully, my visit to the GRO will turn up a marriage cert.

Online heywood

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #24 on: Sunday 24 September 23 12:38 BST (UK) »
With the usual health warning about accuracy, there's a tree on the 'Ancestry' website showing a Cecilia Dunne (1927 - 1987) marrying a Patrick Martin of 37 Harolds Cross on 27 March 1951 at Rosary Church Harolds Cross, Cecilia's parents are shown as William Patrick Dunne and Margaret O'Byrne, there is no other information on the Martin side.

1951 marriages don’t seem to be on Irish genealogy yet.
Here is a Cecelia Dunne from Irish marriages, Family Search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTRR-KP2
Vol 2 pg 643

and Patrick Martin, on the same page
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FTRT-131

May be worth checking out.
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Offline grizzly1

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #25 on: Sunday 24 September 23 12:57 BST (UK) »
Thank you all so much for your efforts, much appreciated, now at least I have a positive lead on the Dunne side.
Again thank you all.

Offline grizzly1

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Re: Harolds cross couple.
« Reply #26 on: Tuesday 26 September 23 13:52 BST (UK) »
Update:
Birth for Patrick Joseph Martin 4-3-1923 Rotunda.

Father: John Martin, Labourer.
Mother Sarah Gregan(possibly Grogan)
Address: 5 Kirwan St.

Marriage : 27 -3-1951.Church of our lady of Rosary.
 
Patrick Martin, 37 Harolds cross cottages, labourer, father, John Martin, labourer.
Cecelia Dunne, 1 Darley St...father, William Dunne, watchman.

Witness's.Arthur Martin...Margaret Dunne.

Looks as if the Sarah Martin Killed 1972 was Patrick Mother.