Merchant Navy CR 10 help

[Buntikins]

I have recently obtained a CR10 for my grandfather from an ancestry site. I am delighted it includes a photo - as the family have never seen one, but it appears to be lacking other info. It includes:

Name
Address
Year of Birth
RS2 number
Cert or Dis A number
Merchant Marine Ribbon and Merchant Marine Medal issue dates
British Medal date

We have never been able to find a death certificate for my grandfather and hoped the CR 10 would shed some light, for example, a date of discharge or reference to his death - perhaps at sea.

Could anyone kindly point me in the right direction to find out more?
Ribbon issued in 1919 and he is believed to have died in the mid 1930s.
Tia.

[Paco]

Welcome to Rootschat.

What is your Grandfathers name and DOB. Do you know where he was born, and who your grandmother was?
Regards.

[Buntikins]

Hi Paco

Thank you for your reply
My grandfather was born in Liverpool on 1/2/1896
His wife, Elizabeth, died before him, 1930.
I had thought I had found his death certificate as a Patrick Brown of roughly the same age died in Liverpool in 1935.
The death certificate showed it was not my grandfather. His father's name was different on the death cert and he had a wife!
The family were unaware that my grandfather may have remarried but I still thought it was a possibility until the father's name showed it not to be him.
There was another Patrick Brown born in Liverpool in 1897 so it could have been him (probs of an extremely common surname!).
Any help.would be much appreciated.
Thank you.

[amondg]

The other Patrick Brown was born 1 April 1896 and joined the Royal Navy.

From other sources you are sure your grandfather joined the Merchant marine?

Is his wife the former Elizabeth Chambers married 1920?

[HMac]

With regard to P Brown b. 1.2.1896. He actually has two CR 10 cards which have survived [unusual] with 2 different ID photos but same man. His ID number was changed so I suggest that is the reason. He also has 2 x CR2 cards which list his ships the earliest I can find him is in 1915 aboard VADERLAND and his last ship within the scope of those records [Fourth Register of Seamen) is CALGARIC which he joins 31 July 1933. That doesn't necessarily mean he does not serve beyond 1933

Regards
Hugh

[Buntikins]

Hi amondg

Yes, just to clarify. I was mistaken about having a C10 card - it is actually his medal card which includes his address. I remember my mother telling me the street name she lived in, so it is definitely him. I can also see a family resemblance to my sister!

His wife was, indeed, Elizabeth Chambers who he married in 1920.
She sadly died in childbirth in 1930.

Just to clarify about the death certificate. It was signed by his wife, so I searched for a Liverpool marriage certificate for Patrick Brown between 1930 and 1935. I found one for a 1931 wedding. The certificate lists Patrick as a bachelor, however, and his father’s name is different, so I think that must be the Patrick who died in 1935.
I can’t find my grandfather’s death certificate.
I’m wondering whether:
He really died at that time?
Died at sea?
Died abroad?
Hmmm…..

[Paco]

Calgaric was a ship that sailed between Liverpool and Canada, however HMAC says he joined in July 1933 whereas the last sailing from Liverpool to Montreal was in June 1933. It would appear that if he was still alive in 1933 then, I decided to look up the 1939 register using his actual DOB but nothing came up for him. If he was still living then maybe he was in another country. Were his parents Michael and Mary with siblings Julia/Martin and Michael?
Regards

[Buntikins]

Hi Paco.

Yes, you have the right family.
They are his parents/siblings.
My mother (who was fostered after her mother's death).was told of his death in the 1930s but we have never been able to find the death certificate.
I was hoping the log book on his last voyage may shed some light
but apparently he may have had further voyages after 1933.
Do you know why his card may be stamped 1933 if the last voyage was a year before that?

[HMac]

I am not sure where you get the information that his last voyage was a year before 1933. He signs on CALGARIC on 31 July of 1933. CALGARIC's last voyage was not 1933 she continued in service until 1934 and he may well have been aboard until then. However, seamen could sign off at other ports or jump ship - many did. The 1933/1934 Crew Agreement should tell you where and when he signed off or if he did not complete any further voyages. May be worth emailing the Maritime History Archive in Canada as they hold the Crew Agreements for 1933 and 1934. They could check if his name is on the Agreement and you could obtain it at cost from then if you wished.
If you have a research question, contact us at: mhares@mun.ca

I base my information on the official number on the CR2 card which I believe you now have. The only problem could be if I have not read that number correctly but I think it states 140579.

Regards
Hugh