Author Topic: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.  (Read 863 times)

Online coombs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,458
  • Research the dead....forget the living.
    • View Profile
Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« on: Saturday 30 September 23 20:09 BST (UK) »
In 2004 I went to the Society Of Genealogists in Clerkenwell just after leaving the FRC. I went into the basement area where the computers and microfiche machines were to look up my 2xgreat grandmother on the 1871 census. I already had her on the 1881, 1891 and 1901 census. This was before I got a copy of her birth cert. 1881, 1891 and 1901 census entries for her said she was born "London Stoke Newington", and her ages point to an 1864 year of birth. I found her on the 1871 census in Bow, East London aged 7, and was shocked to find "Sussex" was her birthplace given, yet the next child, her sister, aged 6 was said to be born "London Middlesex". My 2xgreat gran's birth cert proved she was born in mid Sussex and her parents moved to London shortly after she was born, to none other than Stoke Newington. She was baptised at West Hackney Church in late 1864. So she must have assumed where she lived as a baby and infant is where she was born, and did not know she was born in Sussex. As we know birthplaces on censuses can be unreliable but can also hold a clue as to where someone grew up or spent their very early childhood.

I was also at first, a bit amazed at the amount of bridal pregnancies, as was one relative saying "That was not allowed". I soon realise it was very very common. About 30 to 40% of women in the 1700s, 1800s and 1900s were expecting when they walked up the aisle.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline Kiltpin

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,119
  • Stand and be Counted
    • View Profile
Re: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 30 September 23 21:18 BST (UK) »
What amazes me is the number of couples who were co-habiting before their banns were published and continued right up to the wedding. This was in rural Norfolk in smallish villages. They were in the main churchgoers and would be known to be "living in sin". 

Regards 

Chas
Whannell - Eaton - Jackson
India - Scotland - Australia

Offline Viktoria

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,962
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 30 September 23 22:20 BST (UK) »
Given that farming had boom and bust times and to hire labourers was sometimes too expensive even with the low wages, children were essential and there was an informal “custom” that a prospective bride needed to prove  she was fertile ,often the marriage did not take place until after the birth of a child.
 Methodism was often the religion that reached out to rural communities  but people generally did go to church so the five month pregnancies must have been overlooked ,if there was no censure from the Vicar/ Rector or Methodist minister then at least the couples could and did marry ,better than an unmarried mother and illegitimate child .
Church/ Chapel weddings would be the norm, not sure when Registrars’ Office weddings became more common.
Actually there is no such thing as an illegitimate child only illegitimate parents
according to Bishop Greer , ,Bishop of Manchester at a Mother’s Union rally in our Free Trade Hall, in the far off 1950’s .
Viktoria.

Offline Rena

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,804
  • Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 01 October 23 00:18 BST (UK) »
In the days when there was no pension provided by the government, my gt,. grandfather used to walk once a week from his home to the homes of his three surviving sons and two married daughters when he would receive 2 shillings from each of them..  Additionally I have a copy letter that shows his widow received a small pension from a local "Friendly Society" when he eventually died aged 86 in 1942.

https://www.shepherdsfriendly.co.uk/resources/the-history-of-friendly-societies/

When I first started researching my family I came across a County website that showed details of wives being sold by irate husbands because the wife had not produced a child within the first year of marriage.  Below is a similar website:-

https://www.history.com/news/england-divorce-18th-century-wife-auction


Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke


Offline Viktoria

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,962
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 01 October 23 10:23 BST (UK) »
I think it was Lloyd George who first introduced a pension for older people, many worked right through their eighties , I know many blessed him for the 5/- they got each week, seem to remember it was part of our history syllabus.
One lady , Miss Foley, has her photograph in a book “ Let’s Look at Ramsbottom, “she was photographed on her 70 th Birthday at Rose Mill Ramsbottom ,with a “ cop” in her hand ,a sort of spindle on which thread was wound and it was then placed in the shuttle ,then that  on the loom to continue the weaving process.
Others in photographs are holding shuttles like that John Kay invented.
He was a Ramsbottom man.

People worjed until they could no longer or were retired by the management so had nothing , the small pension was literally a life saver.
We don’t know we are born!
Viktoria.

Offline Rena

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 4,804
  • Crown Copyright: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 01 October 23 10:47 BST (UK) »
I have found that an adult who was the oldest child often makes a common mistake on the census of where (s)he was born.  They know where they lived when a younger sibling was born and think they too were born there but they don't discover the truth until they marry and their parent gives them their baptism document.

I'm so pleased that I'm still not looking for William Ward born in Snape as, out of curiosity, I've just entered his name and the search results only found  a certain David who is trending at the moment.
Aberdeen: Findlay-Shirras,McCarthy: MidLothian: Mason,Telford,Darling,Cruikshanks,Bennett,Sime, Bell: Lanarks:Crum, Brown, MacKenzie,Cameron, Glen, Millar; Ross: Urray:Mackenzie:  Moray: Findlay; Marshall/Marischell: Perthshire: Brown Ferguson: Wales: McCarthy, Thomas: England: Almond, Askin, Dodson, Well(es). Harrison, Maw, McCarthy, Munford, Pye, Shearing, Smith, Smythe, Speight, Strike, Wallis/Wallace, Ward, Wells;Germany: Flamme,Ehlers, Bielstein, Germer, Mohlm, Reupke

Online coombs

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,458
  • Research the dead....forget the living.
    • View Profile
Re: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« Reply #6 on: Sunday 01 October 23 13:05 BST (UK) »
I have found that an adult who was the oldest child often makes a common mistake on the census of where (s)he was born.  They know where they lived when a younger sibling was born and think they too were born there but they don't discover the truth until they marry and their parent gives them their baptism document.

I'm so pleased that I'm still not looking for William Ward born in Snape as, out of curiosity, I've just entered his name and the search results only found  a certain David who is trending at the moment.

This may be the case with my 2xgreat grandmother Kate. She knew her sister born April 1865 was born in Stoke Newington. Kate was baptised in London in late 1864, but was born in Sussex. I guess someone born January 1864 did not need a passport so doubt she would have seen her birth cert. She knew her exact DOB though.
Researching:

LONDON, Coombs, Roberts, Auber, Helsdon, Fradine, Morin, Goodacre
DORSET Coombs, Munday
NORFOLK Helsdon, Riches, Harbord, Budery
KENT Roberts, Goodacre
SUSSEX Walder, Boniface, Dinnage, Standen, Lee, Botten, Wickham, Jupp
SUFFOLK Titshall, Frost, Fairweather, Mayhew, Archer, Eade, Scarfe
DURHAM Stewart, Musgrave, Wilson, Forster
SCOTLAND Stewart in Selkirk
USA Musgrave, Saix
ESSEX Cornwell, Stock, Quilter, Lawrence, Whale, Clift
OXON Edgington, Smith, Inkpen, Snell, Batten, Brain

Offline susieroe

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« Reply #7 on: Monday 02 October 23 09:10 BST (UK) »
Not me, but I'll never forget being in -a very quiet - Leicestershire Records Offiice when suddenly a very loud voice exclaimed "Oh, it's Uncle Will!". A couple of American women over to do their family history were searching the 1881 census. They were quite beside themselves with awe and I sat there thinking yes, i know that feeling, but was well used to delightful discoveries by that time.
Roe,Wells, Bent, Kemp, Weston
Bruin, Gillam, Hurd/Heard, Timson, All in Leicestershire. Keats (Kates)

https://ourkeatsfamilystory.blogspot.com/

Offline aghadowey

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 51,366
    • View Profile
Re: Discoveries that wow you/others but are quite common.
« Reply #8 on: Monday 02 October 23 22:06 BST (UK) »
My husband's aunt was fantastically accurate with names, dates, exact addresses, etc. for not just immediate family but more distant connections. So, when she said that her father's cousin Anna in Belfast married a man named Griffith and had a son, it seemed more than likely. I do remember searching for them years ago without any success but didn't look much further.
Fast forward to the other night. Husband going though his mother's diaries for the 1950s and there was a mention of a funeral for Harry Thompson in Belfast that his father & grandfather attended then a few months later Mrs. Thompson's funeral.
Newspaper searches found both funeral notices with their Belfast home address and suddenly the pieces began to fall into place. Mother-in-law's great-aunt lived on the same street. Turns out cousin Anna married a Thompson, not Griffith, lived on same street as her parents, and they did have a son who died a few years after his parents.
Away sorting out DNA matches... I may be gone for some time many years!