Sometimes the leads are just so tempting but so out of reach

[gnorman]

Hi everyone, I am just trying to chase a lead I've searched for before without any luck. In the midst of a family born in Oldham, and with no other evidence I can find of leaving the UK, there is a child born in St John's, Newfoundland.

She appears on the UK Census twice but even that isnt a simple thing as she appears under two different names; Margaret and the Harriet.

1851 Census, 30th March
Address: 3 Hatters Fold, Causeway, Halifax
Name: Abraham Entwhistle. Place of Birth: Lowham, Lancs. Year of Birth: 1823. Relation to Head of House: Head. Occupation: Bearer in Stone Delf
Name: Ellen Entwhistle. Place of Birth: Weymouth, Dorset. Year of Birth: 1820 Relation to Head of House: Wife. Occupation: NOT GIVEN
Name: Margaret Entwhistle. Place of Birth: St John’s, Newfoundland, British Subject
Year of Birth: 1843. Relation to Head of House: Daughter. Occupation: N/A
Name: Matilda Entwhistle. Place of Birth: Manchester. Year of Birth: 1848 Relation to Head of House: Daughter. Occupation: N/A.
Name: William Entwhistle. Place of Birth: Halifax. Year of Birth: 1851 Relation to Head of House: Son. Occupation: N/A. Age; 9 Months.

1861 Census
Address: 2 Back Simpson Street, Bury
Name: Abraham Entwistle   Place of Birth: Oldham. Year of Birth: 1819. Relation to Head of House: Head. Occupation: Labourer in Iron.
Name: Ellen Entwistle   Place of Birth: Yarmouth. Year of Birth: 1819 Relation to Head of House: Wife.       Occupation: NOT GIVEN.
Name: Harriet Entwistle. Place of Birth: St John’s, Newfoundland – British Subject. Year of Birth: 1842. Relation to Head of House: Daughter. Occupation: Cotton Spinner.
Name: Matilda Entwistle. Place of Birth: Manchester. Year of Birth: 1847 Relation to Head of House: Daughter. Occupation: Cotton Spinner.
Name: William Entwistle. Place of Birth: Halifax. Year of Birth: 1850. Relation to Head of House: Son   Occupation: Doffer.
Name: Thomas Entwistle. Place of Birth: Halifax. Year of Birth: 1852. Relation to Head of House: Son. Occupation: N/A.
Name: James Entwistle. Place of Birth: Manchester. Year of Birth: 1854 Relation to Head of House: Son. Occupation: N/A

I am hoping to buy a birth certificate and have asked the Canadian group on Rootschat if this was compulsary in 1842 or 1843 but I cannot find anymore evidence of her her in the UK.

Can anyone help please?

Thanks, Luke

[Milliepede]

Intriguing indeed.  If she was indeed born there then her parents - or at least her mother - must also have been there.

Is there any evidence of the family on passenger lists or are the dates too early for that 

I had a similar situation where a child suddenly appeared born in S Africa which took some tracking down!

[Milliepede]

Have you got birth registrations for the other children? 

I was thinking parents marriage was Sep 1841 Blackburn and Ellen was Whalley?  but appears not.

[rosie99]

Earlier post
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=857475.

[gnorman]

The marriage of her parents is as follows:

1850 - Marriage solemnized at St Mary the Virgin,
in the District of Bury, in the County of Lancaster, 6th May 1850
Groom: Abraham Entwistle       Age: Of Full Age, bachelor   Profession: Labourer Address: Heywood         Grooms father: John Holt   Profession: Weaver
Bride: Ellen O’Dea          Age: Of Full Age, Widow    Profession: N/A
Address: Heywood         Bride’s father: Edward Wilson
Profession: Labourer         Witnessed by: James Coupe & Ra Crompton    
Performed by: Edw. L. Bowman, Curate

I don't have any birth certificates for her siblings other than my direct link, her brother Thomas:

Birth Certificate
Date & Place of Birth: Bank Top, Southowram, Halifax, County of York, 7th June, 1852   
Name:   Thomas Entwistle, boy      Fathers name: Abraham Entwistle      
Mothers name: Ellen Entwistle late Wilson, formerly Day      
Fathers Profession: Labourer      
Informant: Ellen Entwistle, mother. Bank Top, Southowram            
Reported on:   13th June 1852      

I cannot find any records for the family on passenger lists.

Thanks, Luke

[softly softly]

Possibly Matilda's birth

ODDIE, MATILDA       - 
GRO Reference: 1847  D Quarter in MANCHESTER  Volume 20  Page 561

SS

[Milliepede]

Oh I see so “parents” weren’t married when some of the children were born and Ellen was married before - complicated.  His father is Holt not Entistle?

So we don’t really know who both parents of the oldest children were. 

Maybe her first husband is the clue and he was the father, where did he come from.

[CaroleW]

If Abraham & Ellen only married 1850 & Ellen was previously married to O’Dea - then any children born in Newfoundland in 1843 would be O’Dea - not Entwistle.

When did she marry O’Dea?

[gnorman]

This is the first marriage, I don't actually have a copy but was sent this by a relative - I do not know where the marriage took place.

Michael O’Day, bachelor, of this parish, labourer and Ellen Wilson, spinster, of this parish, were married in this Parish with banns with consent this 4th August 1836 by me Henry Fielding. This marriage was solemnized between us, Michael O’Day & Ellen Wilson, in the presence of Sarah Haddock and Susannah Irlam.