Crowland - Bains / Baines family - help please

[cordley]

I am going round in circles on this one so wonder if a fresh brain would help!!!  It's a little involved, so I will do my best to explain.   Complicated by alternative spellings BAINS/BAINES etc.

In Crowland - 1841 - we have these families:

North Street, Crowland
•   Sarah BAINS, 50, Publican;      <<< nee GILBERT   >>>   *
•   Jonathan BAINS, 26, carpenter;
•   Mary BAINS, 24;           <<<  nee Mary Dobson HARKER, wife of Jonathan  >>>
•   Benjamin BAINS, 22, shoemaker;
•   Mary Ann BAINS, 18, Milliner;     <<<<  my g3 grandmother >>>
•   Susannah BAINS, 15. 

* Sarah's husband Jonathan BAINS(e)S had died in 1830, they had been married in May 1808, neither had been married before.

There is also a family

North Street, Crowland
•   George PARKER, 35, Publican  : <<< dies 1841 >>>
•   Sarah PARKER, 30                    <<<  dies 1844  >>>  **
•   Jonathan PARKER, 8
•   George PARKER, 6
•   Elizabeth PARKER, 5
•   Sarah PARKER, 3
•   William PARKER, 2

** from baptismal records she appears to be Sarah BAINES, daughter of Johnathan and Susannah BAINES: Sarah and George married in Feb 1832, witness included John GILBERT  I think John might have been Sarah GILBERT's brother.

Moving to 1851 we now have the orphaned children of George and Sarah with relatives:

North Street, Crowland:
•   Sarah BAINES, 63, widow, annuitant  <<< nee GILBERT>>>
•   John BAINS, 30, son, widower, cordwainer   <<<  assume wife Mary died 1841-51
•   Sarah PARKER, 13, granddaughter  <<< dr of George and Sarah nee BAINES PARKER
•   Joseph PARKER, 8, grandson <<< son of George and Sarah PARKER

North Street, Crowland, 
•   Jonathan BAINS, 36, Miller and Farmer of 55 acres
•   Mary Dobson BAINS nee HARKER, 34, born Bermondsey, London
•   George PARKER, 16, Nephew, Tailor      <<< son of George and Sarah PARKER
•   Elizabeth PARKER, 14, Niece                <<< dr of George and Sarah PARKER
•   William PARKER, 11, Nephew               <<< son of George and Sarah PARKER

BUT - my problem is that I cannot clarify the relationship between Sarah BAINES nee GILBERT widow of Johnathan BAINES (grandmother) and Sarah PARKER nee BAINS (dr of Johnathan and Susannah) mother of Sarah and Joseph.

I want to infer that Sarah PARKER nee BAINS was actually a child of Jonathan BAINS and Sarah nee GILBERT; there is a gap in the family at the right time, but this would mean that the Parish Register got the wrong mother's name.  John GILBERT being a witness  at her marriage is interesting...

I cannot find a marriage of Johnathan BAINS and Susannah.

Perhaps I am completely wrong and missing something obvious, would love to be helped to sort this puzzler out.

Thanks,  Pam

[ColC]

Sarah GILBERT to Jonathan BAINS both single of Crowland, witnesses William GUNTON & Mary BAINES
   Marriage   24 May 1808   Lincolnshire   Crowland : St Mary, St Bartholomew and St Guthlac : Parish Register

Children baptised Crowland: St Mary, St Bartholomew and St Guthlac : Parish Register
Father a Carpenter, abode Croyland/ Crowland, on all except Mary.

Mary BAINES 3 Sep 1809 burial 26 Mar 1813, father noted as John on both records, mother Sarah?
William BAINES 3 Mar 1813
Jonathan BAINES 30 Oct 1814
Joseph BAINES 7 Sep 1816
Benjamin BAINES 27 Jan 1819
John BAINES 29 Nov 1820
Mary Ann BAINES 22 Mar 1823
Susannah BANES 20 Feb 1826

Parents Jonathon & Susannah, given the gap in baptisms, as you mention, I wonder if this was just an error?
Sarah BAINES   Baptism   04 Feb 1811   Lincolnshire   Crowland : St Mary, St Bartholomew and St Guthlac : Parish Register

Colin

[cordley]

Thanks Colin,  You have found all the same info, and not found Susannah as a valid mother for her other than on the baptismal record.  Wonder if this register was written at the time of the events, or a later copy?  If a later copy could be more likely to be a mis-copying.

Don't want to doubt the word of a Man of God, but in the lack of any other evidence I may amend her mother to Sarah,  it fits all the facts.

Thanks

Pam

[ColC]

There is this baptism on freereg parents Matthew & Sarah, I cannot find a marriage or any other records for them. Only 3 months before Sarah, I wonder if this is where the error comes from?

Susannah BAINES   Baptism   23 Nov 1810   Lincolnshire   Crowland : St Mary, St Bartholomew and St Guthlac : Parish Register

Possible marriage for Sarah on freereg, witnesses are noted, I wonder if the original in dictates the father, so of the others in the County do?

Sarah BAINES to James GIBSON   Marriage   03 Jun 1833   Lincolnshire   Crowland : St Mary, St Bartholomew and St Guthlac : Parish Register

Colin

[cordley]

I have to keep reminding myself that the relationship of Grandmother to the two Parker children is what I am hunting. ie she or her late husband are the parent of one of the children's parents.  Cannot see it can be anything else but their mother.

Witness at the George Parker / Sarah Bains marriage is John Gilbert , which is (if our hypothesis is right) would be her uncle - mother's brother.  Another pointer to us being right.  NB the certificate uses both ways of spelling Bains!  So I am ignoring name differences.

As you point out neither Jonathan nor Sarah have been married before - obvs could have had children, but doesn't feel that's how this has arisen.

[cordley]

Susannah BAINES   Baptism   23 Nov 1810   Lincolnshire   Crowland : St Mary, St Bartholomew and St Guthlac : Parish Register   =   Parents Matthew and Sarah

I suppose the advantage of a place like Crowland is that people didn't move around much - but they kept re-using names, which is a challenge !!!

Your research has helped re-assure me that my thoughts weren't too astray.  Thanks

[ColC]

I wondered if there was a clue in Jonathan & Sarah’s parents. You may already have this?

Rebecca BOWERS to William BAINS   Marriage   28 Jul 1766   Lincolnshire   Faldingworth : All Saints : Parish Register

Jonathan BAINES   Baptism   07 Jan 1778   Lincolnshire   Glentham : St Peter and St Paul : Parish Register

Rebecca BAINS, wife of  Wm   Burial   Jan 1778   Lincolnshire   Glentham : St Peter and St Paul : Parish Register

Remarriage maybe but no marital status.

Elizabeth SMITH to William BAINES   Marriage   1780   Lincolnshire   Glentham : St Peter and St Paul : Parish Register

Also.
Likely baptism of Sarah and sister Susannah, parents William & Susannah.
(There are other children)

Sarah GILBERT   Baptism   10 Feb 1788   Lincolnshire   Crowland : St Mary, St Bartholomew and St Guthlac : Parish Register

Susannah GILBERT   Baptism   4 Mar 1790   Lincolnshire   Crowland : St Mary, St Bartholomew and St Guthlac : Parish Register

Colin