Who was Emma Chapman b 1843, wife of Walter Edwards

[goldfinch99]

I don't know which one is Emma Maria.  Emma Chapmanbury was apparently Emma Isabella and she was 6 in 1851 Emma Edwards would be 12 in 1855, and Emma Short would be 14 or 15.

I am also confused at Walter Edwards and Emma Chapman's marriage in 1863 as they are both 20 but not listed as minors and I don't recognise either of the witnesses on the cert.

[goldfinch99]

Right I'm going to work through all the records and see if I can separate them into two distinct men who maybe both work as watch makers and both have similarly named children.

[amondg]

The triple baptism 24 August 1845 St Leonard's Shoreditch

Amelia born 17 May 1832

Charles born 13 August 1834

Emma born 21 February 1843*     wouldn't this be your Emma ? need to see original to check DOB  (should be 1841?)
transcription only with birth dates.

Father Charles - Red Lion Street  - Jewel springer
Mother Ann
------------------

1841 Brown's Lane, Christ Church Spitalfields/ reg district Whitechapel.
Charles 40 Watch maker
Ann 32  silk winder
Ann 11
Emily 9  (Amelia in 1851)
Charles 7
Emma 3 months   - this would be the one registered Whitechapel mmn Herbert.

ADDED
1851 49 New Nichol Street Bethnal Green
Ann 43  widow born St Lukes
Amelia 19   born  Shoreditch
Charles 17   born Whitechapel
Emma 10   born Spitalfields **  (born circa 1841)

[Cas (stallc)]

Looks like he did have or adopt the name Charles. Maybe the brother died?

All children have Charles Curtis Chapman as father

Amelia Chapman
Marriage Date   20 Oct 1851
Marriage Place   Saint Mark, Shoreditch: Old Street, Hackney, England
Father   Charles Curtis Chapman
Spouse   Robert William Page (mistranscribed as Tagg)
Register Type   Parish Register

Cas

[amondg]

The witness at the above marriage found by CAS  of Amelia are

Thomas Derbyshire and Matilda Derbyshire, they married 7 June 1847 her maiden name Page  father Edward so she is a sister to Robert William Page the groom.

[goldfinch99]

It's just like I said, the names switch around.

Emma Edwards marriage in 1863 aged 20 - father Charles Curtis Chapman
Emma Short marriage in 1861 aged 20 - father Charles Curtis Chapman

Curtis does seem to use both names.

baptism in 1849 prior to marriage of 19 yr old daughter Ann Chapman.  baptism was Charles Curtis Chapman and Ann.  Wedding was Curtis Chapman.  It has to be the same girl. 

And so far the only census entry I have with Charles on is the one with Amelia, Charles, and Emma (1841)

But those are the three who were baptised in 1845 with Emma born in 1843!

The must be a way through this.

I can't find a marriage for Charles to Ann that would work with the 1841 census details which suggest there ought to be a marriage for Charles to Ann in 1829.  But 1841 census has to be the three children of Curtis  plus 3 month old by Ann Herbert.  Yet this census entry is under Charles, not Curtis.

I'm right back to it only making sense if there's only one brother and not two and he dies about 1851 leaving this mess behind him. But that still leaves the question of which Emma is which.

[goldfinch99]

Maybe Curtis was the father of some of the children and Charles took them in and started joining both their names together.  It's possible that might work out.  I don't know if it can be disproved as Ann wasn't baptised until she was 19.  Wedding says father is Curtis, but baptism is done by Charles Curtis and Ann. Soo they would really be Charles and Ann Herbert.

So in the 1841 census, Charles must be living with Ann Herbert who he married in 1839, but the only child who is Ann's is baby Emma who is three months old. This almost works except that two of the older children who we might assume were actually Curtis' children were baptised with a different Emma who was born in 1843.

Then in 1851, Ann Herbert, widow, living with Amelia and Charles (children or Curtis) and Emma born 1841. But where is Emma who was born 1843, and why was it her and not Emma 1941 who was baptised in 1845 triple baptism?

[goldfinch99]

Apparently it was Curtis Chapman who married Ann Herbert in 1839.  At least that's what he calls himself on the marriage cert, even though in 41 on the census he's called Charles but his age matches that of Curtis and not Charles. 

[Cas (stallc)]

What a conundrum 

1861 Civil parish   Shoreditch
Piece 249, Folio 12, Page number   17

Ann Chapman 50 Head - states married
Emma Thos Chapman 20   Daughter married  - image states Short

Same address as on her marriage.  So Emma Short nee Chapman b 1841 is the one with Ann as mother.

Do you have Emma Edwards nee Chapman b1843 on census....any clues?

Cas