Author Topic: Cordwainer or translator?  (Read 521 times)

Offline Stanwix England

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Cordwainer or translator?
« on: Saturday 21 October 23 19:14 BST (UK) »
Hi,

I'm researching someone by looking at the baptism records of their children.

His name is George Knowles. I've not got all his details yet as I'm still trying to piece his life together, but he seems to have been living around the centre of York in the early 1800s.

I'm concerned that I've got two George Knowleses mixed up into one though, because of what appears to be a change of professions.

I have one baptism record from October 1812 for a son called George, whom he has with is wife Hannah.

His profession there is listed as Cordwainer at Petergate, York.

Later on there are other baptisms.

Robert 1815
Henry 1818
Martha 1822

In all of these he's listed as 'translator' at Petergate.

It makes me wonder if 'translator' had something to do with Cordwaining? Because if not, I think it's unlikely I'm looking at the same person here. I can't imagine someone making a jump from Cordwaining to being a translator as we understand it in modern terms.

I've tried googling but the terms are unfortunate for google searches and I just don't get the information I'm looking for.

Thank you

;D Doing my best, but frequently wrong ;D
:-* My thanks to everyone who helps me, you are all marvellous :-*

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Cordwainer or translator?
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 21 October 23 19:21 BST (UK) »
Generations of my Ancestors were "Cordwainers" - They made Shoes and Boots

During my Ancestry Research into Cordwainers have never come across Translator linked to it.

Now Have - Great Research

CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline Galium

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Re: Cordwainer or translator?
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 21 October 23 19:27 BST (UK) »
"Translator: translated documents etc. from one language to another, or possibly a junior Cobbler who re-soled shoes."

From this website: https://www.familyresearcher.co.uk/glossary/Dictionary-of-Old-Occupations-Index.html

UK Census info. Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Cordwainer or translator?
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 21 October 23 19:49 BST (UK) »
A Cobbler was not allowed by Law to make Shoes and be called Cordwainer

A Cobbler could only Repair Shoes and were called Cobbler
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY


Offline Viktoria

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Re: Cordwainer or translator?
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 21 October 23 20:00 BST (UK) »
Cordwainer comes from the superior Cordovan leather used for wealthy peoples’ shoes, from Córdoba in Spain.
Shoemaker was another term for a maker of more basic shoes.
Viktoria.

Offline Stanwix England

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Re: Cordwainer or translator?
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 21 October 23 20:03 BST (UK) »
This has given me a lot to think about. Thank you everyone.
;D Doing my best, but frequently wrong ;D
:-* My thanks to everyone who helps me, you are all marvellous :-*

Offline ALAMO2008

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Re: Cordwainer or translator?
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 21 October 23 20:10 BST (UK) »
If he was a Cordwainer he would have been Registered

https://yorkcordwainers.org.uk/archives/
CHAPMAN ROBINSON McKAY O'MALLEY

Offline Stanwix England

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Re: Cordwainer or translator?
« Reply #7 on: Saturday 21 October 23 21:26 BST (UK) »
Thank you everyone, all of this has really helped. I've dug deeper into the evidence I found, and I'm starting to think that he's translator in terms of the definition that Galium linked to.

I've attempted to add a PDF of the spreadsheet I've put together, as it was too long and complicated to put in a post without a table.

Basically, the George Knowles I am looking at, seems to have children with a Hannah Gleady between 1801 and 1822.

In his marriage to Hannah Gleady on the 7th April 1801 in York, he's described as a 'shoe maker'. He appears to not be fully literate as he gives a mark not his signature.

Then his first six children are baptised when they do the fancy records that note the child's birth order and their Grandparents names.

I've found four of these six children where their birth order is noted. I can't find the records so far for the first and fifth.

The second is John, baptised 19th October 1803. George's profession is given as 'translator - Coffeeyard'.

The rest Hannah 1805 (3rd child died young), Hannah 1807 (4th child) and George 1812 (6th child) all give George's profession as Cordwainer.

I know these children must all be from the same couple as the parents names, and Grandparents names are all the same.

After that we get a format change and are back to the more regularly, but sadly less informative baptism records.

For the records of all the other children George is listed as having with Hannah from that point on, have translator as the occupation.

Robert 1818, Henry 1818 and Martha 1822, all list George's profession as translator, Petergate.

So I'm wondering if the way George's profession is described on these documents depends on what he says on the day or what the person making the record choses to use. He seems to be a shoe maker on his wedding record, a Cordwainer in other places and a Translator in others.

To me it seems like the shoe related occupation one is the most likely overall?
;D Doing my best, but frequently wrong ;D
:-* My thanks to everyone who helps me, you are all marvellous :-*

Offline Pinetree

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Re: Cordwainer or translator?
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 21 October 23 21:33 BST (UK) »
I tend agree Stanwix.  There is a George Knowles of the right age on 1851 census living in Low Petergate and he is shoemaker.

Pinetree
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