Robert Gilvear, born 1827 in Inverkeithing, Fife

[Deirdre784]

Hi, wondering if anyone can help with Robert Gilvear (various spellings over the years, Gillvear, Gilveer, Gilveir, Culvear etc).

Born in Inverkeithing, Fife on 22 December 1827, to John Culvear and Margret Hopert (should be Hooper), he was baptised with his 5 siblings on 5 March 1837 at the church of Sts Philip and Jacob in Bristol. He is one of the eventual 11 children born to John and Margaret as mentioned in this earlier topic looking for help with Margaret and her father.
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=876605.msg7485364#msg7485364

Robert married Eliza Tarring on 5 November 1848 at St John's, Bedminster, Eliza a minor, father George Tarring, cordwainer. They appear to have a son Thomas born around 1849 in Bristol, but i can't find a registration to prove mmn or a baptism. Nor can i find Robert after his marriage. In 1861 - where i first found him - son Thomas (transcribed as Gilver) is a boarder with his maternal grandparents George and Harriet (transcribed as Tawing on Ancestry). His mother Eliza is not there.

Eliza appears to have a daughter Elizabeth (registered as Tarring, mother '-') in Manchester in the Jul-Sep quarter of 1860, and then marries a Thomas Edwards in Manchester on 15 Jan 1865, as Eliza Gilver, widow, father George Tarring, shoemaker. The link which i think confirms this to be the same Eliza Tarring (other than references to born in Bristol) is the appearance of a grandson in 1891 - Benjamin Gilvin on ancestry - but likely to be the son of Eliza's son Thomas and his Caroline Bedell, though again, not found on the GRO (but there is a Benjamin Thomas Gilvier born Bedminster in Jan-Mar 1885 on freeBMD), baptised at St Mary's, Redcliff on 3 Dec 1898, son of Thomas and Caroline, giving date of birth as 7 March 1884  .

My problem is that i cannot find a death for Robert before Eliza's second marriage in 1865, other than a possible one in Apr-Jun 1891 in Lambeth. But no other census entries for him either. Given the birth of Eliza's daughter in 1860 and her marriage as a widow, obviously they could have separated, variations in his name it seems impossible to track him down, though born Inverkeithing, Fife should make it easier - it doesn't 

If anyone can follow this confusing story and find any additional clues, I'd be most grateful. Not my own tree but one i'm doing for a friend.

[osprey]

not sure how much info you have. This appears to be 1901 census for Benjamin, mother & siblings
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSDX-277

1911
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X71D-S18

& 1881 with Thomas
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q276-J1J7

marriage in 1872 for Caroline Bedell & Thomas Gilvier gives his father as Thomas George
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6DML-VHGC

death reg
Thomas Gilvier 39 june qtr 1891 Bedminster vol 5c pg 447

1871 Thomas lodging with the Bedells
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:VFVS-Q35

The death in Lambeth could be the Robert Gilvear baptised at Portsea, Hampshire 25 Feb 1827 son of Robert & Ann

[Deirdre784]

Thanks osprey, all i have found is in my post, so confusing. Most has only come up as i was looking to trace Robert as he’s the only one of the 11 children I haven’t found full details on.  Not 100% on the father listed at Thomas’s marriage, i was kind of thinking it was made up as he didn’t know him.

My friend told me they were difficult to trace as some spelled Gilvear as Gillvear. Little did she know 🙄

Back to the drawing board I think (thanks for the Portsea Robert info).

[Deirdre784]

I’m obviously not the only one struggling with him. Trees on ancestry (which i only look at for ideas as many are so awful) have Robert’s death as ‘before 1860’ or the Lambeth one.

[osprey]

think I'd agree with you on the marriage. Perhaps he couldn't remember his father and may have his used his surname with stepfather's first name.

[Deirdre784]

I have been going through the huge lever arch file my friend gave me with all her documents on the family (she had written to anyone with the surname Gilvear 20-30 years ago collecting information from them, and had been sent some older documents, written by family members).

One document mentions a letter from ‘Robert Gilvear who died in Lambeth workhouse infirmary on 30 June 1891’. It goes on to say that Robert was Margaret’s eldest son who, it appears, spent a lot of time, and money perhaps, trying to establish his mother’s rights. The document also mentions a letter from Robert to his youngest brother Lambert dated 23 March 1890, though sadly none of these letters (or copies) are included. So it looks like he was the Lambeth death, though it doesn’t explain where he was in the ‘51-91 censuses, nor his wife’s marriage as a widow.

[osprey]

well, there is this Robert in Lambeth in 1891, a plasterer born in Bristol. There's an enumerator's mark through the age but it looks like it may be 32.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q98G-73Z

 

[Cas (stallc)]

Looks likely him
Ancestry has it age 62 image looks like 62 transcribed as Gilvin image is Gilvear. Wid, Plasterer born Bristol.

Name   Robert Gilvin
Age   62
Relationship   Boarder
Birth Year   1829
Birth Place   Bristol, Gloucestershire, England
Civil parish   Lambeth

Cas

[osprey]

1881 in Lambeth

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-JSJC