Jean Horn birth details

[J.J.]

With some Thomas ancestors also naming sons Thomas, it made for some confusion. I have noted while searching for others...that it may also have confused those children when Momma called the father, or visa versa..so sometimes the father's middle names were used. Having said that, things can also be harder to prove, as sometimes actual forenames were used on important documents.

Ann Tough c. 1762 (on 1841 census) There's a Kildrummy birth Father James
   https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYXJ-STL

a George Horn & Jannet Esselmont Married 9 Aug.1737 Tarves, Aberdeen, Scotland
 Father: George Horn
   a James Horn Chr: 30 Mar 1742 Tarves, Aberdeen, Scotland
   but also a Chr: 21 October 1754 Tarves, Aberdeen, Scotland
    info posted on Family search but no trees were put together
    http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sri/
There's also births further afield in Methlick, who may be related as well.

Tarves, Aberdeenshire Cemetery
Perhaps the son George b. 1797  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/149090684/george-horne
    https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Horn-6193
 Maybe you can work together to find more!
Wife Harriet enumerated as "widow" Horn in 1851 Aberdeenshire Tarves running Crofter Farms
 https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/590266dfe9379091b1cabbdf

Monument in Tarves Cemetery, in case a sister or other rellie
A Barbara Tough born c. 1767 married a Charles Florence / son Charles
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/2015/191/149086138_1436667997.jpg

[GR2]

I can find nothing that helps in the newspapers and the minutes of the Tarves kirk session are not available online for the period. It is extremely unlikely that James Horn would have any middle names (which was very unusual for "ordinary" people at that time). It is possible that the informant who went to register William's birth made a mistake with William's father's name. It is fairly common to find that, but not guaranteed to have happened in this case.

The George Horn(e) in J.J.'s post appears in the 1841 census as an agricultural labourer living at Barthol Chapel in the parish of Tarves. He was born in Aberdeenshire, but no parish was specified in 1841. Unfortunately he died before statutory registration, so there is no death certificate to check his parents.

[Eric Hatfield]

Thanks to both of you for these extra comments. You would know better than me, but the use of the same few names in a family and an area makes things very difficult. I will keep following up all thse different sources of information to see if I can resolve any of the mystery.

[J.J.]

 I don't think 1841 gave more info other than "Aberdeenshire" for anyone. George could be worth looking at as a brother to William, as the 2 families live in the same locale in 1851.  ( Even half an hr. away, walking, is a neighbour when you live on a farm)  Plus, looking at William's 1841 census there is a young Wm, perhaps his first son ( He later names another William with Margaret as well)
   William, b. betw. 1826 & 1828 is in the Smith households in 1851 & 1861, which, in 1841 was right next door to George's in 1841 "Kirkton"  Kirktown Of Bartle Chapel ( Barthol Chapel?)...( later called "Nether Kirktown" in 1851 where Wm. is a Servant/Farm Labourer age 19  & in 1861 Kirkton  William is a Servant/Cattleman 
Younger Wm. on 3 censuses...

He may also be in Kinnellar 1871 census as a Farm Servant & further afield for later ones...
adding:
Wondering if the abode George & Harriet were in may have been for working tenants/crofters to the Smiths.
There is a Tailor in there one census, and if they also spun wool or crofted fabric ..The Smiths also had one family member who was a merchant.

 

[Eric Hatfield]

Thanks. Yes, there's still lots more to do.

[J.J.]

Sorry about the url in my reply above. It worked at the time.  Try again...
1841- https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/5a140144f4040b9d6ee549ea
1851- https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/590266dfe9379091b1cab83a
1861- https://www.freecen.org.uk/search_records/590269f7e9379091b1d7663a
Use previous & next dwelling feature to see the other dwellings

It is a conundrum that William's father was called George at his death.

The results on census after 1841 say Tarves, Tarves (Parish & District)
However, NONE of the Horn dwellings are within the actual town of Tarves.
New map of Tarves - http://www.rootschat.com/links/01st4/
Old Map of Tarves - http://www.rootschat.com/links/01st3/
Make larger & reduce slightly to see that Bartholchapel & Mosside are close to Keithfield. 
Can't see any Upperwoodhill which is where Wm Sr. dwelled on census.
However, you can see Silvermoss & Courtstone which are near his 1871 census dwelling.
Also on one census a few dwellings before Wm Sr. is a Bartlechaple dwelling
...so his son William in the Smith households of Bartlechaple aren't very far away...
The fact that George is within one of the Smith dwelling sites in 1841, prior to William's 1st
son William being in one of their dwellings in 1851 & 1861 is pretty compelling.
Also George has daughters Jean & Christian ( Jean & Jane being interchangeable)
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01st3/

[Eric Hatfield]

Thanks so much for all the work you have put into this. I am busy for a couple of days but will look into all your links as soon as I have time. Thanks again.

[J.J.]

     Elizabeth Horn   Alexander Pirie   m.  4 Jul 1829  Old Meldrum, Aberdeenshire
also found this gravesite which does appear to be the Eliz. Horn born tarves,
although not on the stone, so perhaps from her death info?  d. 13 Feb 1883 Skene
  https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/195358221/elizabeth-pirie
County info did flip-flop, so perhaps they were named differently in his era.
example: Keithfield once was in Methlick ... Likely from the Earl Marischal Keiths
Robert Smith (where young William worked) was also a tennant in Old town of Fochel & Balgove which are next to Wm. Sr. - all in area owned by the Earl of Aberdeen. You can find all the crofts from the census in there, including a HORNSCROFT!
   http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sx5/
___________________________________
1841 Aberdeenshire   Skene/Skene -  Gask
   PIRIE Alexander  1801 Farmer & Elizabeth 1806
   William 1830    Jane 1832    George 1834   Jessie 37   Alexander 1840
1851 Mean Echt, Echt, Kincardine O'neil  new dau. Elizabeth born Tarves -rest of family say Skene
   http://www.rootschat.com/links/01sx6/
1861 Aberdeenshire (ABD) Echt/ Echt - North Mean Echt
   Elizabeth  says b. Tarves! Alex says b. Skene
   Wm HAY 1m. baby Grandson b. Echt
1871 Aberdeenshire  Old Machar/ Old Machar  Holburn 168   26   0   29   152  Hazelhead Lodge
    Eliz H. Pirie  says born Dunnottar?   Alex. says b.Skene
Sadly, accurancy depends on who gives info to enumerators & life documents.

[J.J.]

   Here's a (not entirely accurate) placement of some of the crofts...The old & new information seems to not be the same, so placed William's somewhere in between what the 2 eras had noted. On 1861 census, previous to Wm. are Gateside, Hardford, Gateside, Old Mill, Silvermoss, Keithfield, Mosside Of Keithfield.  Ord. Survey Book re: Overwood Hill says- 2 small farms consisting of dwelling houses with outhouses and gardens. Situated abt. ¼ mile north of Netherwoodhill
   1851 - William lives on Over Wood Hill  settlement  - The 7th dwelling before him is BartleChapel
The George found in 1851 is in the Kirktown Of Bartle Chaple although he is buried near Tarves which is down in the SouthEast.
*** adding: Also found William buried Barthol Chapel! Which is exactly where I found George Horn in 1841.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/162736485/william-horne
 
   For anyone who doesn't believe these strong people could have walked or ridden these small distances back then...The Scots who were expelled from their homeland braved a whole ocean to immigrate to Canada, and some ended up moving from the east coast of Canada all the way to the West coast. Trains weren't available in Western Canada until the 1880s. Walked...Horse...or Cart
   For further clarity, you could probably fit 2 plus British Isles into the central Province of Manitoba alone...