John Kerr born 1748 Ayr son of David Kerr...but which one!?

[Alan of Kaslo]

Greetings

I have a confusing situation with a great grandfather who was born in Ayr. His name is John Kerr and he was born in 1748. I found his family grave that confirmed he was born in 1748.

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/145606277/john-kerr

Inscription

    Erected
    By
    AGNES ADAM
    In Memory of Her Husband
    JOHN KERR
    Who Died the 16th March 1825
    Aged 77 Years
    The Above AGNES ADAM Died
    The 18th January 1837 Aged 84 Years
    AGNES KELLY Died 1847
    MARGARET RONALD Spouse
    of DAVID KERR Died 1849
    JANET KERR Died 1855
    DAVID KERR Died 1861

I researched the above John Kerr born 1748 Ayr and I discovered that there were two.

KERR JOHN
   
DAVID KERR/ANN GILLESPIE FR298 (FR298)
M
21/08/1748
578
30 / 279
Ayr
   ----------
KERR JOHN
   
DAVID KERR/JANE GILLESPIE FR300 (FR300)
M
09/10/1748
578
30 / 281
Ayr

So now we have two John Kerr , 2 David Kerr and both mothers are named Gillespie! I double-checked and the two mothers are different people. In fact they both had children (of different names) on the same year a couple of times.

I purchased most of the documents to search for clues. What I'm trying to figure out is which couple is the correct parents of John Kerr that married Agnes Adam?

Marriages:
KERR   DAVID   ANNA GILLESPIE/FR2130 (FR2130)   23/04/1745   578   70 / 185   Ayr
KERR   DAVID   JANE GILLESPIE/FR2138 (FR2138)   02/12/1747   578   70 / 193   Ayr

Children of Ann/Anna and David:
Margarit 1746
John   1748
Agnes 1750
William 1751
Ann 1753
David 1760

Children of Jane and David
Margarit 1750
John  09/10/1748

There's a good chance that the two davids are related somehow. I was wondering if someone could have a look at this and these documents and help me figure out which John Kerr from 1748 marries Agnes Adam.

I'm fine with knowing that my grandparents are1748 David Kerr and one-of-two Gillespies ... I was just wondering if I might have missed a clue in the docs that might have helped. Any help figuring out whether it's Ann Gillespie or Jane that is my grandmother is greatly appreciated.

Attached:  KERR   JOHN   DAVID KERR/JANE GILLESPIE FR300 (FR300)   M   09/10/1748   578   30 / 281   Ayr

[Alan of Kaslo]

Here's the other John Kerr:

KERR   JOHN   DAVID KERR/ANN GILLESPIE FR298 (FR298)   M   21/08/1748   578   30 / 279   Ayr

[Alan of Kaslo]

Here's the weddings of the two David Kerrs

KERR   DAVID   ANNA GILLESPIE/FR2130 (FR2130)   23/04/1745   578   70 / 185   Ayr   (attached)

KERR   DAVID   JANE GILLESPIE/FR2138 (FR2138)   02/12/1747   578   70 / 193   Ayr

[Alan of Kaslo]

Second David Kerr Wedding:

[Alan of Kaslo]

One last thing...

The David Kerr on the grave that died in 1861 is the child of John & Agnes who were also mentioned on the grave. I'm not sure who the David that died in 1847 is. It's not on SP.

[Forfarian]

Subtracting the age at death from the year of death (even assuming that the information is absolutely accurate) can produce a potentially misleading result.

John Kerr died on 16 March 1825 aged 77. The stone does not "confirm" that he was born in 1748. It implies that he had passed his 77th birthday between 17 March 1824 and 16 March 1825.

Neither of the two John Kerrs with mothers Gillespie would have turned 77 by 16 March 1825. They would have been in their 77th year, but their actual age would still have been 76.

Therefore you have to consider any possible candidates born between 17 March 1747 and 16 March 1748.

There are no available records of any John Kerrs born between those dates. The most likely explanation for all this is that John Kerr's age according to his stone is incorrect.

From the marriage records it looks as is Anna's David K is the son of John K, and Jane/Jean's David K is probably the son of David as he is described as David Kerr yr.

Unfortunately the naming tradition doesn't help, because Jean/Jane didn't name any of her sons after her father-in-law. Unless her David K yr wasn't in fact the son of a David Ker(r) at all, of course.

BTW if you had searched for children using Ker* instead of Kerr you would have found that David K and Jean/Jane had ten children.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Thanks for the input.

These records have more info than the vast majority i've seen. Besides just witnesses they list how they are family members as you've seen such as "grandfathers of the child" ... in certain other birth/baptism docs for Kerr kids they say "uncles of the child". Nothing jumps out as a clue yet though.

I did see this:

First name(s)    Ann
Last name    Gillespie
Birth year    1714
Age    82
Death year    1796
Death date    02 Jan 1796
Next of kin relationship    Relict of David Kerr
Place    Ayr

And the corresponding baptism on SP:

GILESPIE   ANNA   JOHN GILESPIE/MARGARET ROB FR726 (FR726)   F   11/02/1714   578   20 / 331   Ayr

This is Jane Gillespie I believe:

GILLESPIE   JANE   JOHN GILLESPIE/JANE THOMSONE FR811 (FR811)   F   27/10/1723   578   30 / 19   Ayr

None of the above really gets me anywhere but it's good to sort it out and perhaps find a wayward clue hidden in the records.

Just throwing it out there... my relative is Ann Kerr 1779-1855. Daughter of John Kerr and Agnes Adam. Here is a list her and siblings in case there is a naming pattern clue:

    
JANET  1778
ANNE   1779
DAVID  1781
WILLIAM  1783
JANET  1784
MARY  1786
AGNESS  1788
WILLIAM  1790
JOHN  1792
ROBERT  1794

[Forfarian]

If they stuck to the naming tradition then you would expect Agnes Adam's parents to be William and Janet, and John's to be David and Ann/a/e, which I think is what you have already.

[Alan of Kaslo]

Yes, you are exactly right on Agnes Adam's parents.

ADAM AGNES
   
WILLIAM ADAM/JANET PATON FR335 (FR335)
F
28/02/1753
578
30 / 316
Ayr

Thanks again for the help. I was having real trouble figuring out which John Kerr 1746 was the correct one. Feeling confident it's Anna Gillespie now.