John William Banks 1787 East Ham - 1868 1 Melior Place, Surrey

[K Rees]

I have moved onto another of the Banks' siblings born at Wall End, East Ham, Essex during the 1700's.
Four of the siblings lived around the Southwark/Bermondsey area during the early 1800's and your members have assisted greatly with other information.

I have some information on John William Banks 1787-1868, a shoemaker. Contrary to other family members, I am leading toward that he had more than one marriage and to more than one wife named Sarah. Leading to this theory is the baptism of a boy James Cooper Banks 15 Nov 1807 Bermondsey, when he would have just finished his apprenticeship. Then there is a boy named Samuel Cooper Banks 13 Apr 1817 in St. Mary Magdalene, East Ham. Assuming a third wife named Sarah [Elizabeth] Unknown, then seven other  chn  were born in St. Olave Parish, around Marble Court and Meilor Streets, during the 1820 and 1830s.

Before I purchase the death record of James Cooper Banks c29 Oct 1843 Bermondsey, I would like to ask if someone could James'  location in Bermondsey in 1841 Census with a wife Rosina and three children. John William Banks and his family lived in 4 Ganibure Rents which would be between Wenton Street and Bermondsey Road, St. Olave.

The reason as to why I think that James Cooper Banks may be a son of John William Banks is that  one month after his baptism, John Banks and Richard Cooper were the witnesses of the marriage of Henry [James] Banks to Ann Rugg. on 28 Dec 1807 St. Mary Rotherhithe.
Keith

[ShaunJ]

Providence Buildings, Mill Street, Bermondsey:

James Banks 35 Waterman
Rosina 30
James  7
Thomas 4
Ann 3
Rosina 3 months

[Kay99]

James Cooper Banks burial Bermondsey 29 Oct 1843 confirms his address as Mill St

Kay

[K Rees]

ShaunJ and Kay

Thank you very much for your quick reply and now the occupation of waterman listed for James Cooper Banks may now answer another person who posted on a different site. He had doubted that John Banks 21 a shoemaker  in 1841  could be the same who married Ann Gardener in 1842. Occupation given as traveller however later a waterman. This John Banks (b.21 Feb 1821 St. Olave may still be his ancestor.

It is possible that his half brother (my calculation at the moment) James Cooper Banks may be the connection with the occupation.
Thank you very much
Keith

[JohninSussex]

Providence Buildings, Mill Street, Bermondsey:

James Banks 35 Waterman
Rosina 30
James  7
Thomas 4
Ann 3
Rosina 3 months

Just a reminder that in 1841 :
"35" means anything from 35 to just under 40
"30" likewise is 30 to 34+.

[K Rees]

How to confuse amateur researchers!

This is one record that I found for the baptism of Samuel Cooper Banks in 1817, which indicated that he was baptised at both St. Mary Magdalen, East Ham and St. Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey and may have sent me on a wildgoose chase linking this family to East Ham.

Name   Samuel Cooper Banks
Sex   Male
Father's Name   John Banks
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Sarah
Mother's Sex   Female
Event Type   Christening
Event Date   13 Apr 1817
Event Place   St Mary Magdalene's Church, East Ham, Newham, London, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original)   Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London, England


Also attached (I hope) a record sent by a friend which says that Samuel Cooper Banks was born 18 Jan and bap. 13 Apr 1817 at St. Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey Southwark. It also confirms the Mill Street address and father John Banks as a lighterman. I cut the reference source incase I was not allowed to display.

Can someone advise or can someone produce evidence from Parish church at East Ham that he was baptised there as well?
Keith

[JohninSussex]

How to confuse amateur researchers!

Name   Samuel Cooper Banks
Sex   Male
Father's Name   John Banks
Father's Sex   Male
Mother's Name   Sarah
Mother's Sex   Female
Event Type   Christening
Event Date   13 Apr 1817
Event Place   St Mary Magdalene's Church, East Ham, Newham, London, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original)   Saint Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, London, England

Can someone advise or can someone produce evidence from Parish church at East Ham that he was baptised there as well?
Keith

Where does that record come from?  Why do they have a field for "Father's sex" etc?

Given the coincidence of church names, I would suggest it is overwhelmingly likely that whatever artificial NON intelligence created that record had no interest in distinguishing between different St Mary' Magdalen churches in London.  Family Search by any chance?

[K Rees]

Yes, that first record came from the source your inferred.

Thus, you are suggesting that source has introduced information that is mis-leading.

I should then only consider the copy of the parish register of the Bermondsey church offered by the friend.

Thank you

Keith

[trish1120]

FreeREG has;
Samuel Cooper Banks bapt St Mary Magdalene, Bermondsey, Surrey
+ his Brother WILLIAM bapt same church  11 Jul 1819, same address, Father a Waterman

+ St Mary Magdalene, Woolwich, Kent*
JAMES COOPER 09 Dec 1807, birth 15 Nov 1807
ELIZABETH MARY 03 Feb 1815, birth 15 Jan 1815, Father a Waterman

You may already have the 1841 Census.
Lavender Place,
John Banks, 60, Waterman
Sarah, 58
William, 22, Apprentice Waterman