Help with Naval records

[TJN]

I have my grandfather's records. I followed another link where someone described that the words in brackets are the ships whilst the first word is a base, which was incredibly helpful. I wonder if someone could help with 3 things.
1. What does S/MS mean?
2. Can I find out why he was awarded his DSM?
3. Could sailors serve on ships not on their records?

Any help would be gratefully received.

[sandiep]

found this on web having looked at your Grandads record and seen the S/ms for HMS Dolphin

HMS Dolphin, also known as Fort Blockhouse, was the historic home of the Royal Navy’s submarine service, located in Gosport near Portsmouth. During World War II, it was used as the assembly point for Party Koodoo-Inhuman, which carried out reconnaissance missions ahead of Operation Torch, the amphibious assault in North Africa 1.

It was also used as a submarine depot repair/supply ship 1. However, on December 23, 1939, HMS Dolphin struck a mine and sank while being towed to be stripped of all machinery prior to being sunk as a blockship at Scapa Flow 1.

[TJN]

Brilliant - thank you so much for the information

[martin hooper]

The London Gazette should have details of his DSM.

Martin

[HMac]

I wonder if someone could help with 3 things.
1. What does S/MS mean?
2. Can I find out why he was awarded his DSM?
3. Could sailors serve on ships not on their records?

Hi,
HMS DOLPHIN in the record relates to the shore establishment, the parent unit for the submarines.
S/M or S/MS in brackets relates to submarines or submarine service.

Regarding the D.S.M. Martin is correct and there should be a mention in the London Gazette although expect it to be quite general. If you get no joy I can check Seedies List for you although, I would need a name. There may also be something in local newspapers of the time.

Regarding your last point, naval records often have their personnel listed against a shore accounting base without the actual sea draft shown which can be difficult for researchers looking for a true picture of the seaman's service. However, your record does look a lot better than some I have seen.

Regards
Hugh

[TJN]

Thank you for all of your help. I do have the London Gazette, Martin, but it just says he was awarded it, not what it was for. My granddad always said it had been awarded to the submarine and his name was pulled out of a hat, but it was awarded for his work on the Ilex - so I wonder what he did to get it.

Hugh - if you could look him up, his name was Thomas Herbert Harradine - born October 1903 in Peterborough. His service number is: CK K 65266.

The reason I ask about him working on a different ship is that he got married on March 23rd, 1943. My Nan said they got a special licence to get married as he was going on a special assignment, but the submarine he's on at that time was in Scotland as far as I can tell.

Thanks again everyone

[HMac]

Nothing more on the DSM, I am afraid, he was awarded it for For bravery and enterprise in the Battle of Cape Matapan while serving on HMS ILEX. The D.S.M. is a level three gallantry award and it was usual for the citation to be quite generic such as 'For bravery and enterprise' etc.

The record does suggest, if I am reading it correctly, that he was serving on HMs/m TRESPASSER during the period he was married. The only other thing I can suggest is you ask for a copy of his Pay & Victualing Ledger although I doubt it will add any further information as the record looks quite complete.

Regards
Hugh

[martin hooper]

There is a detailed record of Trespasser's service here:

https://uboat.net/allies/warships/ship/3513.html

Martin

[TJN]

Thanks for all of your help so far. On the 'conduct' part of granddad's records was 'C' for 10 days in 1929 and 'CP' for 1 day in 1932. Bing has suggested 'C' was for 'cellular confinement' and 'CP' was for 'corporal punishment', although I can't find it specifically. Does anyone know if that's true?

Thanks again for all of your help