Author Topic: There's something odd about this  (Read 806 times)

Offline Sinann

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Re: There's something odd about this
« Reply #9 on: Monday 20 November 23 22:42 GMT (UK) »
It looks as if the two clippings are copied from the original. The entries on the full page show different informants, different occupations for the father and different maiden names for the mother. Also the father’s names are different. Possibly an error in transcriptions.

Are you looking at the 1867 page heywood linked to, there are two Waddell births on that one after the other.


Online Forfarian

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Re: There's something odd about this
« Reply #11 on: Monday 20 November 23 22:50 GMT (UK) »
It looks as if the two clippings are copied from the original. The entries on the full page show different informants, different occupations for the father and different maiden names for the mother. Also the father’s names are different. Possibly an error in transcriptions.
These are copied from the handwritten pages at www.irishgenealogy.ie that Sinann has provided links to. Both give the date of birth as 20 March 1865, father as John Waddell, weaver, of Tullyheron, the mother as Sarah Waddell, formerly Emerson, and the informant as the father. The differences are only the names and sexes of the babies, the address where the births occurred, and the date of registration.

Are you saying that there is another set of originals with different information, and if so where did you find it?
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline heywood

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Re: There's something odd about this
« Reply #12 on: Monday 20 November 23 23:30 GMT (UK) »
Looking at the list of children I posted earlier and the census information,  please would you look at these.

Maggie - haven’t found a birth but there could have been a birth pre registration maybe?
Marriage 1908 - Minnie Waddell is a witness
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1908/10071/5663178.pdf

Jane Waddell marriage 1897 - Maggie Waddell is a witness
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1897/10441/5802238.pdf

Are these the family we are looking at?

If there is only Jane in 1865 and for some reason there was a mix up, the number of children would fit the census - if Maggie is the other child.

I thought it would work out but Jane is the first registration so there would be no need to ‘correct’ the birth - oh heck!
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Online Dundee

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Re: There's something odd about this
« Reply #13 on: Monday 20 November 23 23:55 GMT (UK) »
My first thought is that one of those children was actually born in 1864 and it was a catch up registration.  I have seen plenty of children who were baptised and then their birth registrations claim that they were born much later.  John and Sarah clearly did not have fertility problems and they were married in 1863, so claiming that the first child was born 2 years later seems a bit unlikely.

Debra  :)

Offline heywood

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Re: There's something odd about this
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 21 November 23 07:46 GMT (UK) »
Similar  thoughts, Dundee - that is why I thought the first child would be Maggie born 1863/4 perhaps. However, that doesn’t explain two Johns.
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Offline Sinann

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Re: There's something odd about this
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 21 November 23 08:06 GMT (UK) »
I have a case where the mother registered a birth, it should have been a son Daniel but was registered as a daughter Jane. Jane was the mother’s name.
If something similar happened here the second John could be Maggie.

Doesn’t explain why the first two were registered weeks apart.

Offline Jon_ni

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Re: There's something odd about this
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 21 November 23 23:14 GMT (UK) »
As has been said. The informant on both per the clippings was father John, a Weaver and mother Sarah, nee Emerson.
The Townland, civil parish and registration sub-district differ but the townlands are adjacent. Ballymacateer, Maralin = Magheralin in Moira Sub-District & Tullyherron, Donaghcloney in Waringstown Sub-District.

This is in the early days of civil registration.Twins should have a time of birth. If it was a correction to the forname and gender it should have been annotated in the margin of the original and that does not fit with the marriages found. Alternatively he realised had only registered Jane on 7 Apr 1865 and not twin John so registered that on 6th May. BUT the father visited a different register sub-office with a different book of births and different Registrar would be my guess. No death before the 1867 birth, however death registration in particular was known to be defective resulting in proceedral revisions 1881. The father John resided in Tullyherron, but the birth/s may have been at the mother-in-laws.
Another small difference is he marked X on Jane's and signed on John's.

I know we are all guessing but why go to the bother of a 'catch up registration' for a pre-1864 birth, or even an 1864 birth, with the same DOB - if anyone needed proof up to that point they consulted the baptism register as was done for some OAP claims after 1908.

All the images on IrishGenealogy are quarterly copies (same as the English ones ordered from Southport) and certified as such at the bottom on loose sheets with handwritten row/entry numbers. GRONI digitised the original bound registers with pre-printed entry numbers (they had no quarterly copies of anything pre-partition). They index 'both' births.
The respective Registrar's made their quarterly copies and the same Superintendent Registrar of Lurgan District, based at the Workhouse, confirmed both were a true copies of entries in their books - which they retained locally until full, then deposited in Lurgan.

7. Facilities for Searches, etc., and Fees.—Certified copies of all entries of births, deaths, and marriages registered each quarter are forwarded to the Registrar-General, General Register Office, Belfast. Those relating to the years prior to 1922 are, however, still in the General Register Office, Dublin. https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/1934.pdf

The Townlands within Registration Sub-District maps John Grenham blogs about this month are relevant if zoom in on Co. Armagh then Lurgan https://www.johngrenham.com/blog/2023/11/09/we-still-give-birth-get-married-and-die-under-the-poor-law/

Probably need the baptism and possibly burial registers to confirm the true facts, they weren't baptised Magheralin https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSMW-F4W3-K?i=561 so perhaps Holy Trinity, Waringstown.

Offline Jon_ni

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Re: There's something odd about this
« Reply #17 on: Wednesday 22 November 23 02:51 GMT (UK) »
Thought the surnames rang a bell - John possibly had an elder brother William who married Sarah Emerson (with a different father) 1851, but both from the same places https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1851/09413/5410193.pdf
A daughter of theirs married gt-gt-granduncle in my tree.