French baptisms of two sisters 1599/1601

[goldie61]

Two baptisms here of sisters at Montreuil sur Mer.

The writing is terrible!
I can’t find them in the Montreuil listings - perhaps the transcribers couldn’t decipher them.
I found them through a tree on Geneanet, where somebody has managed to find them in the register.

There are 3 baptisms on each clip.
The ones I’m interested in are the middle baptism on each one.
I’ve left the others for helping decipher letters etc.

This is who they are for:

Clip 1.
Marie Berquen, daughter of Christian Berquen and Jeanne Helbert.

Clip 2
Martine Berquen, daughter of Christian Berquen and Jeanne Helbert.

On the marriage of Marie’s daughter Catherine (Duvivier) in 1639, it states her grandmother was Jeanne Helbert.
It’s odd though, as Marie Berquen married Pierre Duvivier about 1611. (No marriage found).
The first baptism of their many children is that of Anne in 1612, where the mother is stated to be Marie Berquen.
If Marie Berquen was baptised as a baby in 1599, this would only make her 13 years old?
It doesn’t give any clue in the baptism entry does it?
It’s a very unusual name in the Montreuil registers, so I don’t think there’s another Marie Berquen who would have been married to the same man,

https://archivesenligne.pasdecalais.fr/v2/ark:/64297/049b88f511b23574ca6e8b40354d8f1e

Many thanks

[Zefiro]

Terrible reading!
As far as I can see, there's nothing that suggests that Marie was baptized at a later age. So she was born in 1599.
This would normally rule her out giving birth in 1612. Odd indeed.
The only solution I can think of is that Christian and Jeanne had another Marie born earlier (about 1590-1593). Is this a possibility? Do you have their wedding?

[goldie61]

Hi Zefiro
No I can't find the marriage of Christian and Jeanne Helbert, or any children born to them before this - but as I say, even these two I have found are not listed in the Montreuil transcriptions listing. I just happened across them on a tree on geneanet. The person with the tree has obviously only found those two as well, (and another tree doesn't even have those two on it).

Why does it mention Jeanne Helbert first on the baptism of Martine?
What's that word after her name?  '..... de Christian Berquen'. You'd have thought it might be 'spouse' or even 'veuve'?

Are you able to read anything of the entry for Marie?
I get as far as 'Du 20'.......!
Then i'm guessing the first couple of words are for 'of the same month' of the entry before - ie, October.
I can just about pick out the names! 

[Zefiro]

To be honest, I struggle with most of the ink
Marie
du ... une fille de nom Marie à Christian de
Berquen et à Jeanne Heberre

Martine
du ... aoust une fille de nom Martine à Jeanne
Helbert ... de Christian Berquen

[goldie61]

That's about my lot too Zefiro!
Awful spider scrawl.

Thanks for looking

[joger]

Marie's baptism is page 457 , and Martine's page 463.

Alas! until the french revolution in 1789 the marriageable age was 12 for the girls and 14 for the boys.

The De Berquens came from Bruges and settled in Calais area  at the end of 16th century. So the couple may have marry there.

Like you , I think the word before Christian is "veuve" .

Christian's death cannot be found since the "sépultures" begin only in 1602 in the registers of Montreuil.

[Zefiro]

Suppose she was a widow at the time she gave birth to Martine. Was Christian the father?
I doubt it. One would expect the priest writing fille de Jeanne et de feu Christian, instead of Jeanne, veuve de Christian.
On the other hand, he didn't call the child illegitimate, so who knows...

[Zefiro]

The De Berquens came from Bruges and settled in Calais area  at the end of 16th century. So the couple may have marry there.

Your source for this information is here, I suppose?
http://home.scarlet.be/r.berquin/branche2.html#branche2

[joger]

Absolutely, scarlet.be.