Author Topic: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940  (Read 509 times)

Offline Florence9

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« on: Wednesday 29 November 23 11:51 GMT (UK) »
Hi all,

I am trying to trace my grandmother's biological parents as she was given up for adoption at birth. I will refer to her as Nana  :)  She has done a MyHeritage DNA test and by using the DNA matches, with family trees, and slotting it into a few trees I made on Ancestry I have narrowed her biological mother down to one of three women.

Nana was born 1943, in Pancras, London. Her birth certificate has her surname as Spratley and middle name as May. She lived in a children's home in Maidenhead, Berkshire until the age of 3, when she was adopted by her parents Joseph and Evelyn King. Nana's father Joseph told her that he met with her biological mother, she told him that the father of the child was an American GI, and that she could not keep the baby. Joseph told her that they changed only her surname, not her first or middle name.

Paternal

MyHeritage lists a 1/2 nephew, a Mr Carney. His MyHeritage profile displays a family tree he entered, with parents surnames. On expanding the family tree myself in Ancestry, I notice that he has no relatives with the surname Spratley, therefore I assume his DNA connection is through Nana's paternal line. If he is a 1/2 nephew, his mother or father must be a 1/2 brother or 1/2 sister to my Nana, and therefore the father of that mother/father (grandfather to Mr C) is also a father to my Nana. I will name names here because all are deceased. The two options for the father of Nana are Philip Goldsmith 1914-1984, and Edward Carney 1908-2001.

  • Philip Goldsmith was born in Sunderland 1914 and married in Sunderland in 1935, had a child born 1938 (died 1940), a second child born 1943 (died 1989), and a third child born 1945 (died 1995). All born in Sunderland.
  • Edward Carney was born in Sunderland 1908, age 17 in 1926 he is recorded on the New York U.S. Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists 1820-1957. His nationality is listed as American, he worked as an Ordinary Seaman on the Conehatta, and departed from Manchester and arrived in New York. I can't find any further info about what he did or where he went, until a 1939 England and Wales Register. He is listed age 31 as Single, living in Sunderland with his parents and siblings, working as an undergraduate Colliery Stone Man. He then has a child in 1945, and marries the mother in 1949. Both in Sunderland.

It's my belief that Edward Carney is the father of Nana, he may have picked up an American accent and worked for the war effort while abroad. It matches the word-of-mouth tale that the father was an American solider. He had a child out of wedlock with his future wife so appears to be less careful in that area, and this child was born 2 years after my grandmother. If he fathered her, it was in a time period between his travels abroad, and his marriage to his wife, providing a possible explanation.

Maternal

MyHeritage lists two Spratley connections. One is a 1st cousin, the other is a 2nd cousin. The 1st cousin lists the most recent common ancestor as grandparents. The 1st cousin must have an uncle or aunt who is the parent of my Nana. The 1st cousin's own tree lists a maternal aunt with surname Norris. With that knowledge, I know that the father of this person is J. C. Spratley 1909-1992 as he married a Norris who had a sister. This eliminates J. C. Spratley as a direct relative to Nana as he would have shown on the DNA tree as a closer common ancestor. The connection must be one of J. C.'s siblings, I am assuming this is a woman because the surname is Spratley as we established the paternal line above. J. C. had three sisters; Doris May Spratley 1915-1980, Violet Rose Spratley 1920-1991, and Lillian Grace Spratley 1925-2001. There is a fourth sister Winifred, but she would have been 11, so I am ruling her out. In the year my Nana was born, Doris was 28, Violet was 23, and Lillian was 18. The potential father was 35, for reference.

  • Doris May Spratley was born 1915 in Berkshire. She married George Frederick Thomas Barton in 1938. She is on the 1939 England and Wales Register as living in Cranbrook, Kent with her husband. George Barton became a prisoner of war in 1939 in Japan, and died in 1945 in Singapore. In 1953 she remarried, a John Seale Rees Mogg Walter, and had two children, I'm struggling to find their records as they are more recent but one was born 1954.
  • Violet Rose Spratley was born 1920 in Wokingham, Berkshire. She appears on an Electoral Register in Surrey 1945. She married Ronald Breadmore in 1949, and is on the Electoral Register in Wokingham in 1955 age 35 living with her husband and mother in law. I can't find any children.
  • Lillian Grace Spratley was born 1925 in Wokingham, Berkshire. The details aren't clear here so this may be wrong but I believe she had a son in 1943 (age 17) and then married his father Henry Normal Prater in 1947, in Berkshire.

I believe that Doris is the most likely person, because her husband was imprisoned abroad in 1939, and then died. Violet is a possibility, but Lillian is both too young, and had a son in the same year my Nana was born so is unlikely to be the mother.

Is anyone able to find something that I have missed? Is there any way to find more info about Edward Carney and what he was doing between 1926-1939? Can anyone narrow this down any further for me?

Thanks for reading!

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 42,081
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« Reply #1 on: Wednesday 29 November 23 13:29 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat

You mention the 1943 birth registration in Pancras district, do you have this certificate as it should name the mother
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline Florence9

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 29 November 23 14:02 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to rootschat

You mention the 1943 birth registration in Pancras district, do you have this certificate as it should name the mother

Thank you :) No, my mother holds a copy but has moved house and couldn't find it when I asked. I have requested a copy of her birth certificate and adoption certificate from the gov website, arriving mid December. Her adopted father apparently met with her biological mother when he adopted her, 3 years after she was born, so I assume the adoption centre/ children's home would have kept the mother's details?

The source for the birth info I have is (firstname) M Spratley 1943 Pancras, London, England, mother's maiden name Spratley, from "England & Wales Births 1837-2006".

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 42,081
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 29 November 23 14:50 GMT (UK) »
There is no point in us speculating as to who the mother is as it should show on that birth certificate.

Where have you applied to for the adoption papers, or do you mean the 'certificate' when the birth was reregistered due to the adoption
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline Florence9

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 29 November 23 15:05 GMT (UK) »
From the website gro.gov.uk I applied for "adoption certificate" and "birth certificate". I didn't know it shows mother's full name, from what I was told it only listed the surname. Hopefully my mother will find a copy when she does a more thorough search next week.

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 42,081
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 29 November 23 15:13 GMT (UK) »
The 1943 birth certificate should name her mother but will probably have 'adopted' mentioned on it.
When she was adopted a certificate would be issued with her adopted parents names on it. 

This article may give you a bit more information
https://www.whodoyouthinkyouaremagazine.com/tutorials/adoption
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline shellyesq

  • RootsChat Moderator
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • ********
  • Posts: 13,634
    • View Profile
Re: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 30 November 23 18:16 GMT (UK) »
Is there a reason that you think the Edward Carney on the 1926 passenger list is from England?  He is listed as American & as having shipped or engaged from Norfolk on 12 Jun. 1926.  Since the rest of the people listed on that page shipped or engaged from Balto (presumably Baltimore, Maryland) on 10 June 1906, I would think he came aboard at Norfolk, Virginia. 

It's possible that there was a mistake on the nationality, but it's quite a common name and there are various Edward Carneys in that age range in American records.

Offline Florence9

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 7
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 30 November 23 18:22 GMT (UK) »
Is there a reason that you think the Edward Carney on the 1926 passenger list is from England?  He is listed as American & as having shipped or engaged from Norfolk on 12 Jun. 1926.  Since the rest of the people listed on that page shipped or engaged from Balto (presumably Baltimore, Maryland) on 10 June 1906, I would think he came aboard at Norfolk, Virginia. 

It's possible that there was a mistake on the nationality, but it's quite a common name and there are various Edward Carneys in that age range in American records.

No I think it was just suggested as a record on Ancestry and looked like it matched. I'm not sure where to go from here or what I can look into next to try and narrow down which man is the father, I'm relying on the MyHeritage DNA match really. Do you have any suggestions?

Offline rosie99

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 42,081
  • ALFIE 2009 - 2021 (Rosbercon Sky's the Limit)
    • View Profile
Re: Spratley Sisters & Edward Carney c. 1940
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 30 November 23 19:31 GMT (UK) »
Sometimes adoption records have information on both parents.
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk