Author Topic: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843  (Read 1145 times)

Offline Scottie Lark

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #27 on: Monday 31 March 25 03:23 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue
Yes, I agree that it's very odd if Catherine was named as her mother on the baptismal certificate and I can't confirm the date. Conversely, I think it's significant that Mary Ann named her first daughter Ellen and her fourth daughter Catherine. I do need to verify the baptismal certificate myself but I've been busy lately with some interesting discoveries in a different branch.
Thanks for the info on the Hannons. I believe that is the same Catherine and i think I have their passenger list (but my PC died last week and I can't access it right now :'(). It's interesting that Catherine was the godmother for one of her nephews who was born in Bowning. Bowning was the location of Michael Delaney's first farm...

Offline sparrett

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #28 on: Monday 31 March 25 03:32 BST (UK) »


I would also like to note that a newborn infant requires mother's milk.

If the mother died at the birth, there would need to be quickly a woman already feeding an infant.

DELANEY would definitely need female/community support to source and manage this situation.

One wonders how this was managed.

Sue
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Offline Scottie Lark

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #29 on: Monday 31 March 25 04:18 BST (UK) »
Yes, I have no idea how they managed. As I noted above, I don't even know what evidence there for the oft repeated claim that Ellen died soon after childbirth. Perhaps Catherine was a member of the Irish community there and she helped to support them and that eventually led to their marriage? From the Hannon info you supplied earlier, it seems that Catherine's brother at least was living in the same area as Michael Delaney.

Offline wivenhoe

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #30 on: Monday 31 March 25 06:23 BST (UK) »

There is too much supposition, stories, etc here for you to advance with confidence.

If the marriage, 1862 Yass, is the earliest evidence you have that Mary Delaney ever existed, you need to see that document. 

* Mary Delaney married James Boyd in 1862 in Yass (3325/1862).

* Mary Boyd married Michael Powell in 1896 (5008/1896) in Boorowa, NSW.


Offline judb

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #31 on: Monday 31 March 25 07:51 BST (UK) »
From Trove which you may already have:
Death Notice for Michael:
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/263967911
The Yass Courier,  Sat 16 July 1881
DEATH.
At Wargiela, near Yass, on the 15th instant, Michael Delaney, aged seventy-eight years. The Funeral will take place to-morrow (Sunday), and the procession will reach Yass about Half-past Two p.m.


Judith




DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

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Offline judb

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #32 on: Monday 31 March 25 07:55 BST (UK) »
I live not far from Yass.  If you can find out whether the Catholic church there has any of the relevant baptism/marriage/death/burial certificates available for viewing I'd be happy to go and look at them/photograph them.

Cheers, Judith
DYER - Wilts, London, Somerset, MIDLANE - Hants, Wilts, SONE - Hants, WRIGHT - London, Hants, SEAGER - Deptford, DWYER, FERGUSON - Victoria, MASON - Woodford Vic, BALLARD - South Wales, GOULDBY - Lowestoft
"Time present and time past are both perhaps present in time future..." T S Eliot

UK Census information Crown Copyrightt, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sparrett

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #33 on: Monday 31 March 25 08:03 BST (UK) »
That's a kind offer Judith ;D

I agree with wivenhoe that there seems to be a lot of undocumented assumptions some of which are just copied from one to another.

When I first spotted this book about the DELANEY's
Book by Mary Muller (2012)

https://au.blurb.com/b/3494358-the-delaney-lineage

I thought it might hold reall evidence, but a glance through the first pages revealed lots of "it is believed" and "we think"

So probably  not worth the $45 investment.

Sue
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Offline Scottie Lark

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #34 on: Monday 31 March 25 09:03 BST (UK) »
Thank you Judith, that is a very kind offer but I wouldn't want to impose on you. I intend to visit Yass myself next time I'm back in Australia and I've been in touch with the parish office there and apparently they will conduct research for a "donation" of $50 but it can take up to three months. However, if you're ever in the vicinity and you'd care to make an enquiry, that would be greatly appreciated.
I agree with Sue and Wivenhoe that there are a lot of undocumented assumptions and I've been trying to sift through these over the past couple of years. I've been involved in academic history research for the past forty years so I do understand the importance of primary sources.
The first assumption I tested was the rather absurd notion that Ellen was aboriginal and I've proved that to be false with my mtDNA test (if, of course, she was Mary Ann's mother). Last year I also exchanged a series of (exacerbating!) emails with the person who created their find-a-grave entries, trying to nail her down on the sources of her information. I also agree that these ancestry sites are riddled with errors which are just copied and pasted without checking their authenticity.
Two of my cousin's did a lot of research on this side of the family 30 or 40 years ago and I think that a lot of the information surrounding Michael Delaney and Ellen Collins originated with them. Unfortunately, one of those cousins has passed away and the other is very elderly, so it's difficult to verify their sources.
Having said that, I do think that the evidence of the BDM records together with Mary Ann's obituary and Michael's death certificate, while not conclusive, does suggest that Mary Ann Delaney (Boyd Hendry Powell) was the daughter of Michael Delaney and Ellen Collins.
As I mentioned earlier, I hope that an autosomal DNA test might shed some more light on the subject.
Thanks too Judith for checking Michael's death notice (which I do already have).
Cheers
Bill

Offline amber_p

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Re: Ellen Collins m. Michael Delaney in Yass 1842, died 1843
« Reply #35 on: Monday 31 March 25 10:03 BST (UK) »
Hi Scottie Lark, I have a copy of the James Boyd/ Mary Ann Delaney Marriage Certificate - 11 Oct 1862 at the Church of St Augustine's, Yass