William Gilbert Renner died 25 Sept 1928- where is he?

[River Tyne Lass]

I wonder if anyone can make sense of this memorial and be able to help locate the burial of 'soldier' William Gilbert Renner who is recorded as having  died on 25 September 1928.

I obtained this inscription below from a book of memorial inscriptions (held at Newcastle City library local studies) for St Paul's Church, Whitley Bay, Tyne and Wear.  I have added these people as memorials on Find a Grave for the benefit of others; they are not related to me.  The volume records that the majority of memorials were cleared.  As I live in the area, I know that this is no longer in the Churchyard so it must have been one of the many cleared ones.

I have since been informed by someone willing to help that there is no Woodburn Cemetery and that the staff at 'Woodlawn Cemetery' have no record of said person in a soldier's plot.

Can anyone help locate him?  This is the memorial inscription which is recorded as having once existed at St Paul, Whitley Bay:

'In loving memory of William beloved husband of Fanny Elizabeth Renner who died Feb 9th 1927 aged 70
William Gilbert their eldest son who died Sept 25th 1928 aged 40
Interred in the soldiers plot Woodburn Cemetery, Saskatson Canada
Evelyn Mary their 2nd daughter
Harold Ralph their 4th son who both died in infancy'

Any help with this will be very much appreciated.  Thank you.

[PaulineJ]

Simple Google search.
https://www.saskatoon.ca/parks-recreation-attractions/parks/woodlawn-cemetery

[*Sandra*]

Hi RTL,

You've come across a strange inscription naming Woodburn Cemetery, Saskatoon, wonder who supplied that information and is it an error 

Mother Fanny and brother Charles and his wife Margaret are buried Lake of Woods Cemetery, Kenora.  Fanny lived in Kenora as of the 1931 census. Have you found where his mother was living  in 1928 ?

Sandra

[jorose]

He is in the Veterans Death Cards but unfortunately without a burial location!
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/mass-digitized-archives/veterans-death-cards-ww1/Pages/item.aspx?PageID=2817054
(page 902, as "W G Renner")

https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B8194-S022
On his military records "true name John Bernard Thompson" has been written.

Which is curious because there is a John B Thompson in Woodlawn with a gravestone I would identify as a soldier's grave, and it has the same death date as your record for W G Renner.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/98794402/john-b-thompson

[Tickettyboo]

Hi RTL

I had a firkle about this man, can't help with the burial but the following may help those who know more about Canadian Records to help you

1888  Birth Reg- Q4 Tynemouth 10b 208, MMN Thompson
1888 28 Oct  Baptism  St Paul, Cullercoats
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QLXY-MNVP
1891 England Census - 13 Cheviot View, Tynemouth
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:HSY8-PN2
1901 England Census - 1, Collingwood Tce, Whitley Bay
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSM1-3V5
1907 - per 1916 Prarie census arrival in Canada, not yet found record of him going

1911 Canada or UK census not yet found his record
1911 England census parents at 14 Eleanor St, Cullercoars
William Gilbert not with them
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWMF-9D4
1913 parents  passenger list to Canada
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-61MS-M?i=51&cc=1823240&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A2HLZ-91X
1916  Jan ? Enlistment in Canadian Expeditionary Force
has a middle name of George and  an 'alias' of John Bernard Thompson
https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/home/record?app=pffww&IdNumber=598054#link-to-this-rec
1916 Jun Prarie Provinces Census, Selkirk, Manitoba
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:S3HT-DZG7-8?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AKMGR-2MX&action=view
1921 Canada Census, Selkirk, Manitoba
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?app=Census1921&op=pdf&id=e002886575
1923 passenger list of parents return to UK
arrived in Liverpool on 23 Dec 1923 aboatd the "Canada" from Halifax, Nova Scotia, theor proposed address was Newcastle upon Tyne
1927 Death Reg for father
Q1 1927 Tynemouth 10b 402, age 70
1930 outgoing Passenger list from UK for mother's return to Canada
sailed from Liverpool on 10 Apr 1930
Renner, Fanny last address 13 Percy Rd Whitley Bay, houswide age 68
accompanied by Renner, Annie , a domestic, aged 42

Boo

[*Sandra*]

He is in the Veterans Death Cards but unfortunately without a burial location!
https://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/mass-digitized-archives/veterans-death-cards-ww1/Pages/item.aspx?PageID=2817054
(page 902, as "W G Renner")

https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B8194-S022
On his military records "true name John Bernard Thompson" has been written.

Which is curious because there is a John B Thompson in Woodlawn with a gravestone I would identify as a soldier's grave, and it has the same death date as your record for W G Renner.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/98794402/john-b-thompson

Wow - Brilliant Jorose. Looks like you found him.

https://recherche-collection-search.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/home/record?app=pffww&IdNumber=598054&q=william%20gilbert%20renner

Saskatchewan, Canada, Residents Index (SRI), 1800-2012

John B. Thompson - Death Date   1928
Death Place   Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada

The map below shows the graves in section I  (yellow plot)

Sandra 

Page 3 Attestation Papers.

[River Tyne Lass]

Wow, thank you so much everyone for all the research that has been done to solve this.  And so fast too!  I really appreciate all the time and effort given. 

That is strange that he seems to have abandoned his Father's surname and used an alias.  I wonder why?

The person who has expressed willingness to help has now let me know that they have now contacted 'Veteran Affairs' concerning this matter. 

Thank you so much once again for coming through for me about this.  Brilliant research!

[Tickettyboo]

Do bear in mind that the note on that record says his 'true name' was John Bernard Thompson which would indicate that it may have been a case of 'identity theft'

Though the record shows this soldier's will names William's Mum as the beneficiary and she also seems to be the recipient of an allotment of his pay. Which seems a bit odd if he wasn't actually her son.

Perhaps William used an alias sometime between 1921 when he was on the census with his parents and 1928 when he died, If someone who knew him as John Bernard Thompson contacted Veteran Affairs for help with funeral costs maybe the VA people thought it was the other way round and John had pretended to be William?

All in all its a strange one, hopefully Veteran Affairs will respond to your contact and have some info that may make it clearer.

Boo

[River Tyne Lass]

Yes, Boo I agree this is a puzzling one regarding alias.  The family at Whitley Bay must have believed this was their Wlliam since they had this recorded on the St Paul memorial.  It will be interesting to hear what Veteran Affairs might have to say in due course. 

I have looked a little more into records at the local studies and found William's bapt which you kindly found Boo.  His birth date is recorded in the margin.  I also found his parents marriage entry.  This might be helpful for any descendants of this family out there:

St Paul, Whitley Bay, Baptism entry 589
Birth date: 17 Sept 1888
Bapt: 28 Oct 1888
William Gilbert
Parents: William & Fanny Elizabeth Renner
Abode: Whitley
Builder
Ceremony by Edward Smith

Christ Church, North Shields
Entry 237
16 August 1886
William Renner & Fanny Elizabeth Thompson
His age 30. Her age 26
Bachelor & Spinster
Builder
Both: This Parish
Fathers:
Francis Renner - Fish Merchant
Ralph Thompson - Clerk
Witnesses: John McQueen & Margaret Elizabeth Strong
All signed names
Ceremony by R. Raggett, M.A.Curate