Apprenticing to your own father?

[baytree1970]

If a son learned the trade of his father, did he apprentice to the father formally? Or was the son sent to apprentice with a different master? Or no apprenticeship at all, the son just informally learned the family business from his dad?

[BumbleB]

Knowing the trade concerned may be of help in answering the question.   

[baytree1970]

Cabinet maker.

Did it depend on the particular trade?

[BumbleB]

Personally, I don't know.  But it might be of help to others. 

[Watson]

I've come across fathers taking sons as apprentices.  I couldn't say how often.

[BumbleB]

It might also depend on the era.  I have a list of 1776 Apprenticeships in Yorkshire for all sorts of occupations, and there are not many instances of apprentice and master having the same surname.  Needless to say that the first entry on this particular list does show the same surname 

[artifis]

In the early 1800s my great x2 grandfather's eldest brother was apprenticed to their father, a clock and watchmaker, using the standard apprenticeship documentation but without any sum entered.

The standard apprenticeship agreement was onerous in what the apprentice could and couldn't do, what their wages would be year by year and how long they had to serve.

Using this for his son ensured that my great x 3 grandfather could ensure that his son stayed on the straight and narrow, where he could go in his spare time and basically who he was allowed to consort with.  This was in a south coast fishing village that certainly had smuggling connections like most did, had local coastal traders based in the town and had visiting coastal traders.  There was a 'lively' official pub trade and no doubt many semi official beer houses where other 'entertainments' were available.    Years ago I spent ages listing all the pubs, hotels and beer seller establishments listed in the 1841-1911 censuses for Littlehampton where I live and I found many beer houses that were in one census but not the next where there were lots of younger ladies listed as living there along with the lady head of the place - this was in and around the road alongside the River Arun which was then navigable for several miles inland so very busy trading place.. No doubt these younger tenants provided the other 'entertainments' for the sailors!

Interestingly my ancestor was apprenticed to a father & son  shoe/boot maker establishment and I have his apprenticeship agreement document which was actually unenforceable as the legal bod who added all the names, dates etc. to the standard printed form made a significant error which basically invalidated it.  The agreement was held in some regard - not - as someone placed a tea mug on it leaving a lovely ring stain, fortunately on the back of the thick parchment so none seeped through to damage the text.

[Stanwix England]

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm sure I've read that for a time at least, it wasn't allowed to be apprenticed to your own father.

Maybe that was only within particular gilds though?

[Rena]

Somewhere in the back of my mind, I'm sure I've read that for a time at least, it wasn't allowed to be apprenticed to your own father.

Maybe that was only within particular gilds though?

The English insisted that the oldest son of a Scotsman had to leave home - this was to stop the clans rising up against the English army. 

Employers had to pay a tax, sent to London for every apprentice they employed.  Presumably as a father paid for an apprenticeship then part of that money would be for tax purposes.

I've got my father's apprenticeship agreement of 1927 signed by his widowed mother.  She paid over two hundred pounds to the company to train her son to be an engineer, which would be repaid back to him as weekly wages over the next five years.