Author Topic: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)  (Read 2314 times)

Offline Jomot

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I don't think this has been posted already - apologies if it has, but better to have it twice than not at all.

The Government is consulting on its proposal to digitise all UK wills from 1858 onward and then destroy the originals after 25 years, with the exception of certain famous people.  Consultation closes 23 Feb 2024.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/easier-access-to-historic-wills-under-new-government-plans
MORGAN: Glamorgan, Durham, Ohio. DAVIS/DAVIES/DAVID: Glamorgan, Ohio.  GIBSON: Leicestershire, Durham, North Yorkshire.  RAIN/RAINE: Cumberland.  TAYLOR: North Yorks. BOURDAS: North Yorks. JEFFREYS: Worcestershire & Northumberland. FORBES: Berwickshire, CHEESMOND: Durham/Northumberland. WINTER: Durham/Northumberland. SNOWBALL: Durham.

Offline Andrew Tarr

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Re: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)
« Reply #1 on: Monday 18 December 23 09:24 GMT (UK) »
Who is the arbiter of 'famous' ?
Tarr, Tydeman, Liversidge, Bartlett, Young

Offline AntonyMMM

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Re: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)
« Reply #2 on: Monday 18 December 23 10:41 GMT (UK) »
The vast majority of government/official papers are already destroyed, and always have been. The things that get kept are only a tiny fraction of what is produced.

So- when submitting comments to this consultation, make sure to emphasise why these particular documents are so important and should be retained.

Offline MollyC

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Re: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)
« Reply #3 on: Monday 18 December 23 11:33 GMT (UK) »
Has the National Archives been consulted, I wonder?


Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)
« Reply #4 on: Monday 18 December 23 15:33 GMT (UK) »
As one might expect from the Ministry of Justice, the main preoccupation seems to be saving money whilst  retaining physical wills for the least possible time necessary to satisfy legal requirements (eg challenges to a will). As MollyC indicates, once these functional (legal) requirements have fallen away, these documents should be handed to TNA who are already expert in preserving old documents.

The MoJ shows how out of touch it is with the genealogical community by this statement:
Quote
... paper wills have been kept continuously since 1858, which is over 160 years, despite the fact that the capacity to challenge a will, for which want of witnesses and other evidence, would likely have expired after a tiny fraction of that time [...] However, whilst that may be the case, the Government also considers that the emotional value of such original documents to relatives and to society is likely to diminish over time and, importantly, the question of retaining a digital version of wills in perpetuity need not be considered in isolation.
paras 29 and 30 of the consultation

Realistically, of course, genealogists rarely get to see and touch the original (post 1858) wills. If we order one from the outsourced HMCTS service, we just get a scanned or digital photograph of the document. To that extent this proposal would make very little difference. But the proposed wholesale destruction of these worthy documents just to save £4.5M pounds is nothing short of heritage vandalism.   

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 20 December 23 04:11 GMT (UK) »
What happens to all those digital copies when the servers crash, or are hacked, or accidentally wiped, etc.?

Its not as if this doesn't happen!
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 20 December 23 04:14 GMT (UK) »
More fundamentally, the papers copies are good indefinitely.

Digital data aren't. For the simple reason that digital formats and storage media change rapidly.
I have data sitting in my closet on floppy drives, platters and magnetic tape. All now unreadable and unrecoverable.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline GrahamH

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Re: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 20 December 23 07:24 GMT (UK) »
It isn't always true that paper copies are good indefinitely though is it? Think about the WW1 burnt records and the 1931 census for instance.

I'm sure many of us know of data managers who have failed to make backup copies, to convert files before their original file formats go out of support or to ensure that they replace storage media before they become unreadable.
Those factors, though, are a failure of management rather than of life of the medium.

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Government proposal to digitise wills (and destroy originals after 25 years)
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 20 December 23 08:53 GMT (UK) »
It isn't always true that paper copies are good indefinitely though is it? Think about the WW1 burnt records and the 1931 census for instance.

I am afraid this argument is a bit silly IMHO. If you try to destroy a record, you will succeed.

The point I am making is that if you leave a paper will sitting on a shelf for 100 or 200 years, and come back, you will still be able to read it. You leave a digital record alone for 50 years and come back, I guarantee you won't be able to read it.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown/Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh/Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee/Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough/Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson/Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry/Oulart;WALSH Kilrane/Wex; WHITE Tagoat area