John Williams Burgess & George Williams Burgess

[markoid1]

Hello,

I am trying to find birth details for two people that is causing some difficulties.

I have John Williams Burgess, b.~1862, from census records places of birth include: Ruabon (1901 & 1911), Wolstanton (1921) and Denbighshire (1891).

He lists his father as George Williams Burgess (brickmaker): deceased on his 1890 marriage certificate, he married Mary Dirkin (Ireland) in Chester, Cheshire.

I can't find John Williams Burgess before the 1891 census and I can't find George Williams Burgess at all.

Given the eclectic places of birth listed for John Williams Burgess, I am beginning to think he actually had no idea where he was born or what his father's real name was - with the 'Williams' being added in at some stage in his young adult life.

[hanes teulu]

Re the 1891 Census isn't this your John - birth place Denbigh?
reference RG12 Piece 2866  Folio 94  Page 24

[markoid1]

Re the 1891 Census isn't this your John - birth place Denbigh?
reference RG12 Piece 2866  Folio 94  Page 24

Yes, it is, my mistake on the original post, not sure why I had England - it should of course be Denbighshire.

[ColC]

As there was no birth registration in Denbighshire, this is a longshot but I wonder if he got the fathers name wrong?
    
1861 Kirkstall, Leeds
BURGESS   Anthony   Lodger   U   M   25   Labourer Ironworks   Yorkshire   Bramham

1861?
Sarah KNAPTON   Yorkshire   Leeds Armley   1842   1861   Yorkshire, West Riding   With family

Sarah Ann KNAPTON   Yorkshire   Leeds   1843   1861   Yorkshire, West Riding   Servant

Marriages Dec 1861   
BURGESS    Anthony        Leeds    9b   455
Sarah Knapton

BURGESS, JOHN  WILLIAM     KNAPTON 
GRO Reference: 1862  J Quarter in HUNSLET  Volume 09B  Page 230

1871 - Wortley Rd, Claytons Row, Armley

BURGESS   Anthony   Head   W   M   38   Brewer   Yorkshire   Clifford      
BURGESS   John W   Son   -   M   8   Scholar   Yorkshire   Armley      

By 1881 Anthony is married to Ann, same road as above, different address.
John is not with them, and no trace of this John?

Death of Anthony?
Deaths Jun 1905   
Burgess    Anthony    71    Bramley    9b   218

Colin
 

[markoid1]

Thanks Colin. I'll have a look at one.

I've also started looking at Burgess' from Ruabon, with limited success. I have an Annie Burgess (b.1855 nee Jones), on a few census returns as a widower - but can't find the Burgess husband.

[Gadget]

This might be way off the mark but putting it up just in case ~

The 1861 census ( RG09/4280/43/1 ) shows  a Hannah Burgess, 45, b. Ashley, Staffs, a laundry maid,  at Wynnstay, Ruabon. The home of the Williams Wynn family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams-Wynn_baronets

I appreciate that she was 45 but could she possibly be a  mother for John and given him the middle name of Williams.


Gadget

PS - my great x2 grandfather was a shepherd on the estate from 1830s - late 1860s

[markoid1]

This might be way off the mark but putting it up just in case ~

The 1861 census ( RG09/4280/43/1 ) shows  a Hannah Burgess, 45, b. Ashley, Staffs, a laundry maid,  at Wynnstay, Ruabon. The home of the Williams Wynn family

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Williams-Wynn_baronets

I appreciate that she was 45 but could she possibly be a  mother for John and given him the middle name of Williams.


Gadget

PS - my great x2 grandfather was a shepherd on the estate from 1830s - late 1860s

Many thanks Gadget. That's an interesting take and worthy of some investigating.

I have found another Hannah Burgess, similar age and place of birth - living in Wolstanton. Could be a coincidence...but interesting given John Williams Burgess states Ruabon as place of birth for 30 years and then changes it to Wolstanton for the 1921 census.

[Gadget]

I looked at your post this morning and wondered about it all, as my great grandmother (daughter of the shepherd)  also worked as a laundry maid at Wynnstay. Also, I recalled from listening to childhood stories of some 'goings on' at Wynnstay!

When I saw  Hannah Burgess on the 1861, I thought it worth investigating.

Gadget

[Gadget]

There is  baptism of a Hannah Burgess in 1814, Newcastle under Lyme. daughter of John (a hatter) and Mary.