Author Topic: Mathews and de Vere  (Read 384 times)

Offline Watson

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Mathews and de Vere
« on: Saturday 30 December 23 14:17 GMT (UK) »
Surname: Mathews     Forenames: Valentine, John, Cecil, De Vere   

These were the names on the birth certificate of the person who was later often referred to as Cecil de Vere.  He was born on 14 February 1846 at 46 Warwick Street, Golden Square, St. James's Westminster.  His mother was Catherine Mathews.  The father's name was left blank, yet, unusually, it gave his occupation (surgeon).  No baptism record has been found.

Both he and his mother dropped the name Mathews and took on the surname of de Vere, though I have found no marriage.  Later, she kept a lodging-house.  In the 1861 census, her birthplace was given as "Wales".  She died at 10 Lower Calthorpe Street, St. Pancras, in 1864, age given as 42, and was buried in Brompton Cemetery.  He became a clerk and a very strong chess player, but became ill with tuberculosis and spent his final few months in a convalescence home in Torquay, where he died on 9 February 1875, and was buried in Torquay Cemetery.  Both the death registration and the burial register entry were in the name of Cecil Valentine Brown.  These were the only occasions I know when the name Brown was used.

I have three specific questions:

1. Regarding the illegitimate birth, in an attempt to discover the father, I have searched a volume of Petty Sessions for the parish of St. James's at Westminster Archives, but I have a feeling this was not the most appropriate.  What would be the best court records to check?

2.  Is there any significance in the choice of Brompton Cemetery for the burial of someone who lived in St. Pancras?

3.  Any thoughts on use of the name Brown at the very end of his life?  Did he want to be anonymous in Torquay?  A recording error?  His father's name? 

Offline amondg

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Re: Mathews and de Vere
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 30 December 23 15:02 GMT (UK) »
Have you worked out the connection between Mary Best/Bess  age 25 on 1851 census living at 24

Warwick Place. Valentine DeVere age 5 is a visitor. (visitors are often related)

 He was born Warwick Place per birth certificate you mentioned.

Offline amondg

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Re: Mathews and de Vere
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 30 December 23 15:31 GMT (UK) »
There is a tree on ancestry, that says he is the illegitimate son of Captain William Cecil De Vere R.N.

and a servant Katherine Mathews.

The Captain died 2 February 1869 Probate 9 March of Torquay Devon, admin wife Sophia
(married 1852)

Perhaps there is something in the will regarding Valentine.

Offline Milliepede

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Re: Mathews and de Vere
« Reply #3 on: Saturday 30 December 23 15:42 GMT (UK) »
Quote
Any thoughts on use of the name Brown at the very end of his life?

Maybe his mother had a partner called Brown.  I take it she was unmarried when she died.
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Offline Watson

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Re: Mathews and de Vere
« Reply #4 on: Saturday 30 December 23 15:44 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your reply, amondg.

I have tended to assume that Mary Best was a friend of Catherine.  I would be glad to receive any information that they were related.

Warwick Place is in Pimlico and is not the same as Warwick Street, where Valentine was born. Some rum goings on at Mary Best's house were reported in Berrow’s Worcester Journal of 13th January 1853.  It was also suggested in court that some of the women present at a party there were prostitutes.

Offline Watson

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Re: Mathews and de Vere
« Reply #5 on: Saturday 30 December 23 15:49 GMT (UK) »
Thank you for your second reply, amondg.

I'm sure William Cecil De Vere is not the father.  At all possible times of conception, he was hundreds of miles away at sea.

His will does not mention Valentine.

Offline Watson

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Re: Mathews and de Vere
« Reply #6 on: Saturday 30 December 23 15:56 GMT (UK) »
Milliepede wrote:

"Maybe his mother had a partner called Brown.  I take it she was unmarried when she died."

Yes, that's possible.  I have no information that she was ever married, although she was decribed as a widow in the 1861 census.

Postscript:
On further reflection about this, if she had a partner Brown, one has to explain why we have heard no mention of Brown until Valentine's death in 1875.  She died in 1864.

Offline Watson

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Re: Mathews and de Vere
« Reply #7 on: Tuesday 02 January 24 12:14 GMT (UK) »
You have become "marvellously mute"!

I should have mentioned that Valentine has not been found in the 1871 census, so, if anyone can oblige with that, it would be enormously useful.  He should have been in the country at the time.

Online jorose

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Re: Mathews and de Vere
« Reply #8 on: Saturday 06 January 24 12:00 GMT (UK) »
1. A very small percentage of illegitimate births would have ever been the subject of any sort of court case. It would probably be worth checking local poor law records to see if Catherine & Cecil had any interaction with that system.

2. London's parish cemeteries were hideously overcrowded at this time. Brompton was one of several private cemeteries created to address the issue, which took burials from multiple parishes, so there's no special meaning by itself.  The burial register may show a tiny bit more info (i.e. if it was a private grave, who owned the grave plot) - I think findmypast has Brompton records but other sites may as well.

3. Who was the informant at his death? This would be the person who knew him as "Brown".
It does seem possible he was seeking anonymity towards the end of his life.
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